Is ELPHIE Worth Reading? Wicked Prequel Review and Summary | Deep Themes and Deep Thoughts

Today we FINISH our coverage of the Wicked book universe by Gregory Maguire with the newest installation, released an entire fourteen years after Out of Oz: Elphie: A Wicked Childhood, the prequel to the original book!

Told from Elphaba Thropp’s perspective as she navigates her early childhood and adolescence before starting her education at Shiz University, we watch as she discovers her magic and the injustices in larger society outside of her small village. We get an inside look at her relationships with Nessarose and Shell, and even get to pick up some Easter eggs along the way. Do we think this prequel is a money grab coming off the Wicked movie’s success? Or a true and genuine expansion of this rich universe? 

Check out our kickoff  “Are Books Political" episode all about why books and reading are inherently political and why it’s not only important to acknowledge this, but to read our favorite books through this lens. We concluded during our subsequent deep dive of all four books in the original Wicked universe that Maguire intentionally uses the fantastical to expertly critique issues like authoritarianism, colonialism, and racism, just to name a few. But does Elphie have the same impact and themes? Or does it fall short? 

In this episode we dive into book 0.5: Elphie. We give our spoiler free reviews, then get into our faves and least faves, and then discuss whether or not this book stayed true to the overtly political overtones that the rest of Maguire’s Oz books have, or if it took us in a completely new direction. 

Fantasy stories can be so much more than surface level storytelling, and often are. We’re here to discover why! Listen on for our reviews of book four, our deep dive reactions with five sentence summary, and fun facts about the Wicked Universe! 

And don’t worry, we saw the new movie! So tune in next Friday for our FINAL episode in this bonus series when we discuss the musical, the movies, and rank everything! 

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Check out these author interviews? ⬇️

We interviewed Callie Hart all about her NYT Bestseller Quicksilver! Watch it here! https://youtu.be/CED5s7qDBdQ?si=8xtIRO1IzX6Rsld4

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Chapters

• 0:00 Spoiler Free Intro
• 4:15 Elphie Book Reviews
• 9:05 5 Sentence Elphie Book Summary
• 14:00 Fav and Least Favorite Things in Elphie
• 34:00 Philosophical Questions and Political Problems in Elphie
• 38:34 Easter Eggs and Wicked connections
• 49:20 Elphie Quotes
• 55:20 Cash Grab or No?
• 1:01:14 Wicked Fun Fact!

Transcript

The Audible audio book is narrated by Cynthia Revo and it is a delight. Cash grab, not cash grab. Ooh, I'm going to punch you in the face with like every crazy political thing I could possibly think of.

Welcome to the Besties in the Books podcast, guys. I'm Ashley. And I'm Liz. And today is officially our fifth Yeah. and final book deep dive. So, not final episode, but final book deep dive in our bonus series all about Wicked and our book's political. We're going to be talking about the prequel, Elfie. Yeah. So, I think a lot of you guys are kind of curious about this book, as we were. So, I'm really excited to talk about it. It came out just in March, so not very long ago at all. Yeah. And there's not much talk on the interwebs about it yet. So, hopefully we can open up the conversation about it for you guys. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, if you guys have been sticking around for this bonus series, you know what have we been doing? We did an episode about our books political. Then we covered the original four books in the Wicked Years. So, Wicked, Son of a Witch, Lion Among Men, and Out of Oz. So, those are kind of the original four books that make up the Wicked universe. Um, so now we're going back in time. We're healthy. Today is going to be a little bit different since Elfie was released. Liz did the math for us 30 years after Wicked the original. 14 years. Yeah, that's crazy. 14 years after Out of Oz, which we covered last week. So, not only will we be giving you our spoilerfree rating so you can you're safe to hang out for a little bit, we'll warn you dramatically and with lots of enthusiasm when spoilers are coming. So, do not fret if you're wanting to find out, is this worth a read? Like, is it filler? All of that we'll be discussing. And then, of course, we'll let you know spoilers, and give you our usual favorite, least favorite parts, favorite quotes, talk a little bit about Easter eggs that might be inside this book, referring to Elfie's life, and more and some full circle moments. So, yeah, that's what we'll be doing. Well, yeah. It's like I was curious, I think, and you guys might be too, just, yeah, what are the Easter eggs? Do we have any fill-in-theblank moments with this? Um, full circle moments, lingering questions that are answered. And so, I think that's going to be kind of like a main focus of this particular episode. Um, just because I feel like, you know, without giving anything away, it is a bit different than the original four books, for sure. Um, and what are we doing this for? We're doing it all in preparation of the movie coming out. Wicked for good part two. Literally like we are filming this the week it comes out. It comes out on Friday. So excited to see it this weekend. My mom is coming to visit for Thanksgiving and she's already like, "Are we seeing Wicked?" My sister's like texting me this morning like our local theater is like putting tickets on sale today. So, we have to make sure to pre-order them. So, very exciting. Yes. the last episode that we'll be doing for our bonus series

and talking about how everything both the movies all those kinds of good things. But before we get into discussing Elfie, we just wanted to say thank you so much for being here. Seriously, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your book to come hang out with us and hear a little bit more about these books, what our thoughts and opinions are, as well as share some others, too. Please make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to listen to favorite podcasts, including YouTube. We are almost at a thousand over there. So exciting. And thank you guys so much for your support over this last year or so. We are just having such a blast. So much fun. We're also over on Instagram and Tik Tok at besties in the books podcast. And you get a little bit more sneak peeks and to what's coming. That way you can do your homework and get to reading if you want to follow along and what our deep dives are going to be all about coming up. Yes. Yeah. All the things. All right. All the things. So, should we just get into our spoiler-free star rating reviews of Elfie? Yes. A Wicked Child in a Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. All right. Um, okay. So, I rated Elfie four stars. Mhm. Um, I thought it was entertaining enough. I thought that it had some cool connections to the original series. Um, I like Alphaba's character and so I felt like she was easy to read about, but it wasn't a life-changing read for me by any stretch of the imagination. And again, just like some of the books in the original Wicked series. As far as entertainment value goes, I probably would have rated it a three if Gregory Magguire's writing wasn't so good. That's what bumps it up to a four for me. Um, so yeah. So, we're going to stick with a four, but mainly because it's written really well, not necessarily because it sucked me in and just, you know, really made me excited about the content. So, there's that. Um, yeah. Yeah. Um, and as far as a spice rating, there's no spice in here. So, this is like a very, very straightforward zero. So, yeah. Yeah. This is actually a book that I feel like my 10-year-old could read easily. Yeah. Like anyone could read as opposed to any of the other ones I would not say. So, yeah. So, just to give you a little taste. Um, four stars also because it was well written. So, I'm giving it to him for that. Had a nice flow, but I'll admit nothing particularly necessary to read about happened. So, yeah. There you go. With that said, I do want to insert right here for those kind of listening and wondering if Elfie is worth picking up in a spoiler-free way, which is a little tricky, but let's keep it spoilerfree for now. Do you feel like this prequel is worth the read? Why or why not? Is worth the read or is necessary? Answer both. We got time. Um, if you love the Wicked Universe, I'd say it's worth the read. Okay. Uh, is it necessary? No. Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you, you know, read the original Wicked Books and you're kind of like, I don't know if I'm going to read it or not, I'd say if you're on the fence about it, if you have extra time and decide, sure, then go for it. If not, you're not really missing out. like it's not it's not so profound or answering any questions that are so like any of the questions that we were left with um in what is it called? I always want to say return to Out of Oz. Yeah, I want to say Return to Oz because of that crazy Disney movie that I love so much. Um but yeah, I feel like there's nothing in there that would um where I'd be like, "Oh my god, you have to read this because it answers that question that we've all been wondering." It's not like that, right? Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. I'd say, yeah, if you read the series so far and you're wondering if you need to go back to the prequel, is it going to answer those questions? Don't read it for that. Read it because you just love Alphaba as a character and you just want to consume more. Because I dare say, and we'll go over this more in our ranking episode when that comes out to wrap everything up, I would read Wicked and then Elfie and then go into Son of a Witch. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not because you have to by any means, but just because, you know, it's her story. You're not really getting you're getting like a bit more character development from other characters. So, if you're wanting to know more about Nessa Rose and Shell, even Nanny, you're going to get more built out character um plots and everything within that book, but it's not necessary to read. Not necessary to read the other books, you know, you don't have to do them in order, I don't think, for that. No, I don't think so. So, but we'll talk more about that in ranking. Um, but yeah, nothing profound. It's just if you love the Rick Wicked franchise and you want to consume everything, go for it. Sure. It's simple. It's short, you know. Yeah, it's under 300 pages. It's not heavy like the other books. It's not. So, it's very different in tone, which we'll talk about, but I think it's also because of the point of view. It's a younger point of view. It's Elfie, you know, as she's growing up. So, there we go. I think that's the best way we can say all that. Yeah. Without giving any specific spoilers away, I would I would agree on all accounts of that assessment. Yes. Great. Yes. Here. Here. Here. Here. Okay. So, well, with that being said, should we get into spoilers starting with the five sentence summary? Let's go.

Let's go. Let's go. All right. Elfie, the five sentence summary by Gregory McGuire. Here we go. Yes, Gregory Magguire wrote this. I didn't. No, I'm just kidding. I did. Made it sound like it was by him. It's by me. I'm not quite so good. Okay. At the age of only four, Elfie prevents the capture of her baby sister Nessa by essentially negotiating with a group of quadlings who traveled to Rush margins to avenge Turtle Heart's uncere unceremonious murder by compelling a crocodile to sacrifice itself instead. A group of water buffalo to prevent FX from interfering and by hiding her sister in the reads. Her parents think this was all a lucky coincidence.

One guys got another new musical instrument. This week you're getting the treasure trove with this series. Sorry. I love that it's Monica has gone MIA again. I love that it's red and green. It's almost pink and green. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Okay. And it almost is hot air balloon shaped. So there you go. There you go. There you go. There goes a wizard. Uh, Alphaba turns a stone into a plum by quote unquote hexing it for Nessa, but soon discovers that a ghost monkey named Aporos may have actually been responsible for the magic as he has been hanging around their encampment, stealing things and creating general mischief. After Molina gives birth to Shell and dies, Alphaba has her first vision of Aporos walking her mother to the afterlife.

Two, how long should you do this for? Yeah, I was thinking, is it profound enough? I don't know. Uh, the throps moved to I think it was called Avil. I couldn't remember. Yeah. The town. Okay. Where Alphaba begins working at a fabric shop for a man who becomes somewhat of a mentor after she goes into a shop trying to find information about turtle heart and a rock and a bird swoop in breaking his window. During this time, she finds out the boys of the town are all working in the vegetable pearl mines, even though it is often bad for their health, and much of the ecosystems ne necessary to do so are being systematically destroyed by the mining of rubies and the building of the yellow brick trade route. Three, the throp children are out playing by a lake when Nessa falls in and is saved by a couple of bears. This is capital B. This is when Alphaba realizes that there are such things as sentient talking animals. So, she meets them in the woods and has a brief conversation with them before she uses her singing to help them escape. She never sees them again and F starts using Alphabet to sing and draw in more potential religious converts. So, she quits the shop to help her dad more and her boss tells her to go get an education. H four

just vibes poetry vibing on your own. Yeah, exactly. Should I read sentence five in that style? No, I'm just kid. We don't need to do that. Uh, Alphabus starts going to school but is kicked out because she steals a tea set from another student and one of her siblings breaks it. So, she starts taking lessons from a somewhat royal quadling boy in secret. The family goes on their journey to finally find Turtle Heart's tribe because Shell's bad behavior essentially gets them kicked out of town. And when they do find the Quadling tribe, their oracle of a leader says that Alpha needs to do more with her life. So, she travels to Shiz and begins school there.

Five.

There we go. Yeah. So, good job. Thank you. Much easier for this book, huh? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I was actually writing this one cuz it's separated into parts like most of his books are, but this one was only four, I think, four parts. And so, at the end of each part, I just wrote a sentence until I got to the end. Yeah. Cuz I was like, "Okay, this actually breaks it down nicely for me so I don't have to like sit there and try to figure this out." That's nice. Yeah, it was nice. Okay, so let's just start let's just start with the basics. So this pretty much I mean just to kind of like set the scene if you you know haven't read this and you're thinking about it. I mean it literally starts off when she's like a toddler and then goes all the way to when she's I think 16, right? So that's kind of like the span of time. Yeah. Going into shiz. So whatever age that was. Yeah. Mhm. So I think Yeah. 16 or something. What is I mean, as we found out in Night Out of Oz, what is time? What is age? I don't know. We're guessing. They even mention that in the book. He says something like years. We can't really count birthdays because years don't matter here. And I'm like, what is going on? Like, why? Why? Okay. So, yeah. But that's I would say the approximation of like the age range if you're wondering kind of like what this covers. Yeah. So, what would you say your favorite part from Elfie was? Um, honestly, I I liked finding out how Elfie was afforded the opportunity to go to Shiz. Yeah, that was interesting cuz reading the books, I was like, how did they even manage this? Like, how did would she even go there, you know? Mhm. So, yeah, it was lovely. Yeah. Basically just making connections with the Quadling royalty. Yeah. Mhm. Um, yeah. Especially because I feel like if you're just watching the movies or the play, you're kind of under the assumption that they are well off. Yeah. And in the books, it's like not the case because her dad at this point in her life anyways is just kind of like flying off the rails with his like traveling missionary stuff. Yeah. Um my favorite part were the connections to the original story. Um, and we'll talk more about like little Easter eggs here in a little bit, but I think that that, you know, you guys know me, I do enjoy a prequel for that reason. So, I definitely like every time we notice something, like I'll just give an example here when she's working in the fabric store, you know, and there's like a whole little paragraph talking about how she has to sweep the floors, but even just using a broom feels very unnatural to her. I was like, obviously he went out of his way to write that intentionally, you know what I mean? So, I like stuff like that because it's just kind of like fun to pick it apart and like notice it. So, that was definitely my favorite part of this book were those little Yeah, we'll call them Assassin's Blade moments, you know, like not quite the same level in my opinion, but yeah, they were there. Um, what was your least favorite part? Oh, I just hated Shell, you know, being a terror, killing things, ruining stuff, and then she's getting the blame because she's green and a little odd. Hated that. Yeah. I mean, yes. But then at the same time, I think one of the things that I did appreciate about this book, because, you know, to go back to the original four books where one of the main things is kind of nature versus nurture, right? I think one of the points of this book is to show that Shell has always been a little questionable since the beginning. And I think we were really willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because looking back on it, we really didn't know anything about his personality, right? And now that we know about his personality, it's kind of like, oh well, yeah. Yeah, that completely adds up. Like dude was killing animals for fun. like that serial killer behavior, you know what I mean? Literally. Um, so there was that and then it was also like this kind of gradual like the same thing with Nessa, like kind of like this gradual um like growing into her personality where you could tell that due to her circumstances and also just, you know, how she was treated by FX kind of turned into this like symbol of piety almost, you know. Yeah. how Shell like in his nature is just a bad dude and is just because he's essentially, you know, like just a sis man, you know, or whatever, can just go through life and get what he wants even though he's being terrible. Nessa, who's born differently just like Alpha was, Alphaba was, um, you know, she started out looking up to her sister, being kind and gentle, but because of the way she's treated, actually falls into this other path, too. So, just interesting lens to see the difference how different siblings can be, which we all know. We can all be raised in the same household, same parents, same circumstances kind of and not but like you literally can become totally different people. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And it shows too that it's like, you know, they do have some innate qualities as people, but then depending on, you know, their circumstances and their parenting or lack of parenting in this case, I'd say in a lot of ways, um, you know, kind of helps them grow into those personalities in like an extreme, you know. Yeah. What different things they witness, what the age you are when you're witnessing them. All of those things are put through a lens. For sure. And yeah, while I hated Shell and hearing all of his atrocities, I wouldn't take it out, you know. Yeah, for sure. We needed to know for sure. So, it was important. I mean, it just it explained a lot. I mean, even just finding out that his name is actually shelter god. I was like, what an interesting like thing to add in there. You know what I mean? No wonder why he had a god complex. Yeah. Hello. Hello. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's just kind of left to his own devices to do whatever the heck he wants to do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, hey, that says a lot right there, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Yep. Yeah. Uh my least favorite part I just put that it was kind of mundane. Like I I didn't feel like there was much of like there wasn't suspense. There wasn't climax. There wasn't like you know what I mean? It was just kind of like a steady same tone the whole time. This book is for the fans of the movie that wanted more from Alphaba after Wicked. I really think I really feel cuz I do feel like some things we felt a I felt a little pandered too. So Mhm. I could see that. Also though, you know what I was thinking about too is for a character that we've, you know, I guess as a society become so obsessed with recently, she like isn't even in any of the books past book one arguably. Yeah. Right. So, it's like she's actually in the grand scheme of all four books like not that much of a prominent character. And so I think that yeah, Gregory Magcguire was probably trying to give her more of a personality and more of a story and then also humanize her more because I feel like she was very kind of one-dimensional in Wicked. Yeah, I did feel like her character was pretty different in these two books. You mean Wicked versus Elfie? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think he was trying to give her more of a personality. Yeah, for sure. Cuz I and I feel like Elfie's personality to Elfie is much more similar to a prequel of the movie Wicked or even the musical as opposed to a prequel to the book. Like you get a little bit and of course people can get jaded and she goes to Shiz and obviously sees these atrocities. So maybe that's what changes her so much of course. But I don't know. I that's what I felt like I was reading. I felt like I was reading the prequel to the movie. Yeah, I could see that because her character in Wicked is definitely very much more um she's closed off, she's analytical, she's unfeilling, she's unealable. Yeah. And I feel like in Elfie, it's like she I don't know is I don't want to use the term normal, but I feel like is almost kind of like a quote unquote normal kid who's just a little bit ostracized as opposed but then Yeah. But then the singing, you know, so then people like her cuz she sings. I didn't like the singing. I'll be honest, cuz that felt like it it's not like we got singing in any of Wicked. We did. We did the book. Yeah, we did. Yeah, it was important. Oh, I guess I blacked that out. She cuz it's been like five books ago. Yeah. Remember she's in the bar and she's singing a song. I can't remember if Fiero is there or not, but it's supposed to be Somewhere Over the Rainbow is the song that she's singing. That's right. And it's the one time that we realize that she has this great voice, but it's also talked about in Wicked that it was her voice that kind of sucked her into FX's religious stuff because he used her. So that was mentioned in fine. I did not remember that at all. So my bad, but I'll take it all back. No, but that's what I was just like it was it was definitely like But yeah, it makes sense cuz that's what he used her for. So okay, fine. Forget it. I think that to in your defense, I think that it was mentioned, but it wasn't like super duper important in Wicked. And I think it was harped upon a lot more in the prequel. Yeah. The singing, you know what I mean? So, hey, I don't know. Whatever that means. I feel like that's why But that's part of kind of why, well, this would make sense for Wicked. But then it was weird like because you don't talk about singing when you're in musicals, you know? We don't talk about the fact that everybody can sing. You know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, it just is what it is. Okay, I'll let it slide. Yeah. This is why we talk things out. It helps to refresh our memories, too. But yeah, so that was my least favorite part was just that there was kind of no pacing was fine, but at the same time, it was because the pacing was all the same. It was like there was no like ooh or like ah moments. It was just kind of like okay, okay. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, what about characters? Uh, my fave was Elfie, obviously. I mean, hey, but I will say because I feel like, well, we're supposed to like her, right? I did actually really like getting more character development uh for Nessa Rose cuz this is the first book, movie, whatever that I've actually liked her. You know, I just thought they I loved the sister dynamic. It was very sister, you know, like the love and hate, you know, teasing and even her with her magic and her hexing and stuff was so cute. And it was nice seeing Nessa start out less um influenced by her father and everything. So, you know, obviously it's sad to see her change so much um and also become jaded, but it was it was cute. I liked that. Yeah. Mhm. I would say that my favorite character um and he was like a minor character was her boss at the fabric store. Um just because of the fact that he really like saw her for who she was and encouraged her to expand herself. And I was like, that's really cool because I feel like, you know, we all have people like that in our lives, you know, whether they be teachers or mentors or employers or whoever they might be, you know, family members, whatever. And some of those people definitely stand out to me in my brain. And I still think about those people, you know, and so I was like, that's special. I feel like I liked that for sure. Agreed. Very special. Um, what about your least favorite character? Was it Shell? Yeah. Uh, Evil Incarnate. Yes. It's going to go to him. Yeah, he very much reminded me of that son. Uh, one of FO's sons. What was that guy's name? That guy. Oh, the one who Well, I mean, they even had that similarity where they said that Shell put a cat in a well, so it was like the same as that kid. I can't remember his name either right now, but he put Lear in a well. Yeah. And so I was like, "Huh, that's fascinating because I'm sure that was also intentional." Um, yeah, he reminded me of of that kid as well. Yeah, he was pretty terrible. And it just goes to show that. Yeah, it's like exactly what you're saying. Alphabuz under an insane amount of scrutiny. Nasa Rose feels like she has to be perfect all the time for, you know, a lot of different reasons, but also because of, I think, because of the fact that she's a girl, she has a disability, right? There's all these like factors. And meanwhile, Shell is just like able to run. Yeah. Blameless. Yeah. Getting getting to do whatever he wants as a white sis male, you know. Yeah. I don't think that's an accident. Well, and it's literally gets to take over a throne. Just because he says he can. Just cuz he says he can. And meanwhile, the sisters have to fight for every little crumb and respect die and ultimately die anyways. Yeah. gets to sit on his high bucket. Yeah, he he gets to go sit on his bucket and then he gets to go wander off into the caves and live out his existence, you know, for doing what I think that's the other thing is like as far as we know and we I mean obviously there's a lot that we don't know about these people, right? It's like as far as we know, Shell isn't remarkable. He doesn't have any powers. He doesn't have he's not particularly intelligent. He doesn't have any magic that we know of like, you know what I mean? And and so it's like he's arguably the le the less qualified, the least qualified out of all of the siblings to actually rule and he ends up being the one in the end who, you know, quote unquote prevails or whatever you want to say. So that says a lot right there. Yep. Yep. For sure. Um okay, so when all is said and done, how did this particular book make you feel? underwhelmed. Yeah. Like we've said a lot now, I think, nothing profound, nothing too revealing. It's just a little extension if you're obsessed with the franchise. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. That's I'd say underwhelmed is a good way to put it, too. Just kind of like I did like that. You know, I think that when you watch the movies or the play, you're very much Not even under the assumption you know that Alphaba has magic. It's very very obvious. In the book it's kind of ambiguous. It's like what is magic? What is science? What is her own, you know, theorizing or whatever. Um, and so I did like in this book that there were a few instances where it could go either way, right? like did she actually turn the rock into a plum or was it, you know, did someone else do it for did Shell do it? Right? It's like we don't really know what happened. Did the did the monkey do it? Was the monkey real? Was he not real? Like I feel like there's a lot of things that we don't really have the answers to. So, it can kind of leave it open to interpretation of whether or not Elfie was always capable of magic or, you know, if it came on later in life. How strong was it? You know, all that kind of good stuff. Same thing for Nessa Rose. So, I did like that. Yeah. But yeah, generally speaking, I would say fairly underwhelmed. There wasn't enough connection to where it got me like excited, you know, didn't get the people going and the people. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I would say that that is how it made me feel. Also, I feel like, you know, one of the things that Gregory Magcguire does well, which I think we both know he does well at this point, is his writing style is just, in my opinion, really unique and well done. And I think this book was cool because it's almost like the POV evolved as Elfie grew. Mhm. And so I struggled with the POV a little bit in the beginning because it was almost like we were literally like looking at the world through like this toddler's eyes who doesn't necessarily understand what's going on and only sees a very small amount of the world. Um so I was kind of like, "Oh god, I hope the whole book isn't like this cuz this might be weird." But it does evolve in each section. So I thought that was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in that way it made me feel like, oh, that's kind of unique. I don't know that I've read another book like that. You know, like even reading Ann of Green Gables, like all eight books where obviously she's in every single age group throughout, I didn't feel like there was that dramatic of like a change in tone. You know what I mean? Totally. So, I feel like that's an accomplishment to do in a book of 300 pages or less. Yeah. You literally felt like you were growing up with her in the point of view. Yep. So, was this book what you expected? you know, I really I didn't have any expectations going into it, but I will say this isn't a Suzanne Collins um prequel as uh as I was expecting, you know, like what do we say about Suzanne Collins? She writes when she has something to say. Yeah. Every book is so just profound and we do get a lot of obviously profound moments and political and philosophical lenses throughout the whole series and I do think that the timing of that he had stuff to say for sure but not Elfie. I think that all changed with Elfie. So while I don't think I was expecting that but just giving it thought afterwards it's like oh I do think I was after reading all those books I was expecting more of that continue on but we're not other than the lens of like siblings and like literally nature versus nurture I didn't feel like everything it was the same tone but I also think that that was intentional so I don't know I'm kind of all over the place but things are alluded well I think I think it was intentional, too. Things were alluded to, right? I think because we're seeing things from her point of view, she didn't even realize that there were such things as sentient talking animals until probably 3/4 of the way through the book, right? And so, we couldn't really realistically be talking about that debate, right? Like what is um you know, what constitutes someone having a soul or personhood or worthiness? It's like she hasn't grappled with these ideas because she didn't yet realize that that was a thing. So, I think that's part of it. And then also, you know, she's just now discovering um you know, with the whole conversation she has with her boss about the why aren't there any boys around? And he's like, "Oh, well, they're all working off in essentially like the mines, right?" So, it's like she hasn't really had to children yearn for the m but it's like she hasn't yet grappled with these ideas of um you know colonialism, imperialism, uh class disparity and inequality and stuff. I think that's intentional, right? It's like she's finally like looking at the world as something that exists outside of herself. Um and kind of figuring out that not everything revolves around her, which I think is an experience everyone goes through at some point. Yeah. Um, so I think that's why like I don't think it could have made sense for it to be as political because how you know. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. But it still was a little bit jarring just coming off of like how like Gregor McGuire Gregory Magguire is like I'm going to punch you in the face with like every crazy political thing I could possibly think of until you are so beaten down you can like barely take it. And then he's like and now here's Elfie. Yeah. Here's a little treat. Do you feel better? I know how it felt. We're just like decrepit. Like barely, especially reading all these back to back. Yeah. Like, oh, here's the little piece of pie. There you go. Um, thank you. Delicious. Yeah. So easy to digest. Great. I think that's what Pepsi for that. Honestly, look at that symbolism right there. That's hilarious. take your Pepto pills after this. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was a little treat. But it was definitely jarring for you. Is that what you probably didn't expect that? Yeah. I think that was part of it for sure. A little bit of whiplash. Mhm. But with that being said, was this book as political and philosophical as the original series? No. No. But as we were just saying, I mean, you're reading through the lens of younger eyes and kind of seeing like it's fascinating just as you just talked about the little bits of exposure to political and ethical issues in the world. Little bits, noticing, hearing the conversations, getting them. It's like literally how we grow up, right? You're only getting like a little bit. You're getting censored in a way, right? Cuz you don't want to freak out when you're four years old. So, and handle more than you can handle or notice or care, you know, cuz you're very self-centered and uh that's what you have to be to survive. So, you're growing with her and you're and learning that. So, that was an interesting take. So, maybe not as political and philosophical, but we have the building blocks. Yeah. Being so well and I think a major theme of this book too was, you know, what is education? Who has access to it? how can it change people, society, the world, etc. So, yeah, I feel like that was kind of a big thing, too, because you know, she doesn't even realize she Alphaba has no context to realize like what kind of potential she could have, right? It's like she's like realizing through these other people kind of acting as mirrors to her, you know what I mean? like who are like you need to go to school and she's like really I don't know and they're like yeah just do it and then she does really well in school and they're like well you should probably try to go to college and she's like I don't know and they're like no I think um so I feel like definitely education was a big piece of yeah well that's interesting that I didn't think about it until this moment because you know we talk about in our real lives. So, we're getting that parallel again. You're just a small town girl. You know, you're living in Elfie's world. So, you're in this small town with the Quadlings or wherever they're boopping around to all these small places and then you go to college away and your world is expanded beyond your small scope that you originally had and what you learn in that. So if we continue on straight through Wicked, we would see that development milestone that people go through when they go away to college, right? Um yeah. So yeah, and even almost becoming more liberal than the teachers themselves, right? Cuz she's then finding out the injustices that are going on with animals and her professors and everything that's going on with the world. And you have the different people that are just like status quo, go with it. Shut up. And then you have people that want to liberate the un less fortunate. So yeah, it almost now that I'm talking to you about this, I'm like, well, now I kind of want to know what Glenda was doing around this time. You know what I mean? Like it kind of makes me wonder, but then I'm at the same time I'm like, I don't know that I need to know, but I kind of want to know. Now I want to know. Yeah. If she was a more profound character, if we got more with her throughout the series, then Yeah. Uh, but I mean they kind of talk about a little bit like she's just she doesn't really have her first thought until uh Elfie tells her to think. So a first thought it's just lights on but no one's home until I mean Yeah. That's basically how she describes herself. She's like, "Oh, I read the words but I don't think about them." Like those just reading. Yeah. It's like those people that don't imagine can't see in their head what's going on. Trips me out, man. Yeah. Read the words. Yeah. So, so, um, did you find out anything new and interesting about Elfie's character that you want to mention here, like that would make this book kind of like stand out more like, oh, cool. I just liked, you know, seeing her attachment to animals, starting, you know, the way she could communicate with them differently, but not even be fully aware of it, those kind of little things. Just building out her personality overall. Yeah. What about you? I feel like all of mine, just to go into the next kind of thing we wanted to talk about, all of mine were kind of like just fun like Easter eggs or connections for later on down the line. Um, did you write any Easter eggs down that you want to share? We could kind of like bounce back and forth or do you want me to just do Oh, the bears in the wood. Woods, you know, that like to read. Yeah, that like to read. That was so sad though. I'm like, freaking shell. I know you killed them, [ __ ] Probably. I mean, yeah. Um, okay. My favorite one. Okay, so just to talk about something that I learned about Alphaba that like I did enjoy. She keeps the crocodile remains until her death in her room at Kiamoko. I was like, that is cool. I like that. Especially because it's like it washes up completely preserved like 10 years later and then she has it all. Yeah. It's like that is pretty cool. Like that's neat. Um so I did like that. I also mentioned the broom um the monkey conversation that she has with the um ghost monkey. Yeah. The one who we never really know is real or not. Talking about he how he wants wings. Mhm. Um I thought that was really cool. And then how you know they have that whole celebration in that town where everyone wears the fabric wings. So she spends all this time in the fabric store cutting out special wings. I was like that helped because I'm just like she's a little bit Dr. Frankenstein and wicked, you know, like I mean she was I mean we were we referred to her as human centipede doctor, right? So like kind of weird but okay now we have some context to that. So, less creepy, but still kind of creepy. But I mean, still creepy, but yeah. Um, I liked her crystal ball. Like, yes, the crystal ball reference. Yeah, that the guy was like, "You're going to have one one day of your own." Not this one, but you'll have one. I know. That was cool. I also liked um the mention of the idol of the lady with a fishtail in place of legs. Mhm. I was like, "Okay, so we're having some full circle moments." So, I feel like those were the things. was maybe not necessarily like they weren't characteristics of Alphaba, but they were like you can see how I mean if you want to argue how her destiny was kind of like the building blocks of her destiny were already getting like kind of set up from this very early age, you know, or if you don't really want to believe in that kind of fatalistic destiny perspective, you could also say like, okay, well maybe this just influenced her behaviors and decision-m later in life. Um either way, it's pretty fascinating to me. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Did you have any other ones you wanted to share? Is that it? Nope, that's it. Okay. Um All right. So, I think we've already kind of answered uh is this book necessary? Do you think it's a positive or or negative contribution to the canon and to the wicked I don't know, fandom in general? I guess positive but not necessary. So, hey. Yeah. Mhm. Just like we talked about at the beginning. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I don't think it's a negative contribution. I think it's good. I think, you know, it could be, like you said, something that the kids could read, right? Maybe that a younger audience can read, whereas with the Wicked Years books, that's like a I mean, we even talked about it. That's like a high school, college read. That's not Yeah. an elementary school, middle school read. So maybe that's who this is for. You know, the little kids who are like, I want to know more about Elfie. Yeah. I haven't like watched any interviews from him about this book or read anything. There's not a lot of reviews out there, which we'll get to in a second. So I don't know if that was the goal or not. I mean, I just think it's interesting to be able to see her growth. So maybe maybe so maybe a gentle way to ease them into maybe starting with Elfie, you know, for the younger audience that wants to get a little bit of it and then later on go into the other books cuz it gets so heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Um so yeah, I would say positive contribution, not necessarily um a completely necessary part of the story as you said. Um you're not missing out if you're not going to read it. you know, if you've listened to this so far, you know, and you're like, I'm good. You're not missing anything. Okay. So, would you read Here's the million-dollar question. Would you read any more Wicked books? Oh, not for a while. Yeah, I were battered. We're bruised. The Pepsidacy helped, but I need a break. I would have needed a break three books ago, to be honest. Like, it was hard reading these all back to back. heavy for sure. Um I guess what I because I mean if we would have read these in real time, this would have spanned the we wouldn't have been able to like 30 years. Like that's too long. Um I guess what I mean is like let's say in five years Yeah. another prequel comes out for instance. Would you read that? I can sleep at night with what I know so far. Mhm. I don't need to know more, but if it came out, I don't know. I can't say never. Never say never to adding to TBR. Yeah. Um, if I would hope that he takes a Suzanne Collins, you know, a page out of Suzanne Collins book and give us something give us something to talk about. I'm very musical today. Um, but you know, like have something that needs to be said in a way that need that isn't redundant on what's already been said. That's what I wouldn't want. I wouldn't want another repetitive book. It would need to add to the story, either like some kind of middle book or if he wanted to continue on past out of Oz to find out what goes on. But like I can sleep at night knowing that place sucks and I don't ever want to go there. Mhm. Yeah. I would think at this point what would compel me is if we do find out that um Alphaba was brought back by that spell that you know at the end um that would interest me. Yeah. I don't think he's going to give that to us. I don't think so either. I really don't. Yeah. I mean he kind of can't at this point but if for some reason that happened if he writes fanfiction about himself Yeah. as a fan folk would. Yeah, for sure. Cuz I just think that that is so intentional for him to not have that happen. Yeah. You know, as much as we would want it. Yeah. But that would fascinate me. Or Glinda's story and to find out she was working behind the scenes and it was all a facade because we do want more Glenda. So sue us. We do. Don't sue us. But like we do. I was talking about my with my daughter cuz she wants to know some of the stuff that's going on in the books because what by the time she reads it's going to be a long time from now and I'm just like you know she's like oh but then what about Glenda? I'm like she's just really not in it that much. It's really disappointing. Yeah, for sure. Like uh like what was really going on behind the scenes with Glenda? Maybe nothing. Yeah, maybe nothing. But I would love to find out that she was trying stuff and maybe she got user well she you know she didn't get she stepped down but maybe she was pressured and usurped to take over you know maybe she was trying maybe she married that guy to get up there because she knew trying to use her influence behind the scenes but she had to keep up the facade so much that even herself at sometimes would believe the facade you know. Yeah for sure. I I feel like those would be Yeah. more of Glenda's backstory. Um, was Alphaba reincarnated at the end? If so, what happens? And I think the other thing would be I, as much as we hate Shell, I would love a book about Shell specifically to see it would be like uh it would be like the Ballad of Song Birds and Snakes, but for Wicked, you know what I mean? Which could be really good if done right. So, I feel like that would be interesting. Um, yeah. I mean, he is he's acting out because even though he is a white sis male that could do whatever he wants, he is overshadowed in a way from his sisters who need more than him. So, he's going to be acting out. You know, there's something psychological there for sure that it's attention seeking or even he sees what he can get away with cuz the eyes aren't really on him. He can just skirt by. Mhm. Yeah. So, yeah, you're right. Yeah, I would read that. I'm a sucker for a good villain origin story, you know. Um, especially because I feel like in Out of Oz, like he's technically the villain, but like we're not really seeing how he has direct responsibility for a lot of the atrocities that are happening because he's kind of like this weird behind the scenes. And so, he's a straw man. He's a straw man. But I would like to know how much of a straw man was he really? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, or maybe a book about the wizard. I like how we're basically like we'll actually read a book about anything. Yeah. Well, like I guess what we mean to say as long as it's not the same, you know, situation that was going on with all these I would I liked the way Elfie was and the w the way Wicked was even Son of a W, you know, but like we Out of Oz just really threw us through a loop here, I think. So, give us some direction and some backstory to build up and more focus on certain characters. And I think we're all for that. Yeah. Yeah. So, would it go to the top of my TBR when it comes out? Probably not. Like, honestly, like even if it was like 5 years from now, I'd be like, I'll get to it when I get to it, but like I'm not in any crazy rush to read it. Like, it'll be what what it is. Um, it's not like with a Hunger Games book where it comes out and I'm like, I'm reading it the day it comes out. I'm reading it as fast as my eyes can possibly see or my ears could possibly hear, you know. Yeah. Um it's not like that level. So, but yeah, obviously we wouldn't be against uh apparently learning more about a lot of the side characters. Yeah, apparently. I didn't know it until you said it. Yeah. Well, well, actually. Well, actually. Yeah. Um what about any notable quotes from good old Elfie? I just have a couple here. Okay. You don't need your father's permission to notice what you notice. There's liberty enough in owning your own eyes, girl. Loved that. Yeah. Um Elfie says, "Is that all it takes to make people likable that they haven't picked up a stone and chucked it?"

Fairman's guy, maybe it doesn't matter how we're made in the end. It only matters who we are. I wrote that one down, too. Yeah. The everpresent question in this series, who am I? Who are we? Where is the dotted line between soul, capital S, and soul, lowercase S? And is that even a question? That's when she first kind of starts grappling with the animal debate. Yeah, that's all I wrote down. You want any more for us? I have one special one that I did want to share that I did actually screenshot and send to my sister because I loved it so much. A um it says sisters are not flowers and parents can never from the first day give the same water and light and soil to one girl that they gave to her sister. Sisters grow if they grow together at all in adjacent sorrow. So sometimes Nessa screams and Elfie screams just because they have no words for their spontaneous outburst. It is a mutual sort of melasmic yodel saying more or less we're [ __ ] They look at each other and shake their heads, scarcely believing the unto unoured luck of having been born adjacent to that and like this. But the screaming can turn into screaming with laughter a moment later. This is called spiritual health and no one has ever known where it comes from or why sounds like my house with my two girls and you're probably Yeah, that's why I loved it so much because I feel like it in for a man to write something that encapsulates sisterhood so well. I was like, "Wow, I love that." And then what I thought was funny too was the first part of that quote is actually the pull quote that's on the back of the book. I was like, "Oh, that's funny." Um, so I did send that to her cuz I loved it. It was my favorite one. I think I just looked up the averages on Goodreads. Um, so right now as of today there's only 4,390 ratings, which is so I mean it came out in March, so that's kind of a while to only have 4,000 ratings. That's kind of low, I feel. And off the tails of Wicked. Wicked, right? Only a few months. Um, it gets an average of a 3.19. So, yeah, we can see. That might be the lowest other than cowardly. Cowardly lion. That's not what it's called. A lion and mukb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that one was pretty low, too. It was right around there. Mhm. What about uh the audio book? because I know that we mentioned it on our social media, but just so you guys know, the Audible audio book is narrated by Cynthia Revo and it is a delight. Ooh, it was so good. It made me like the book more, hands down. I don't know because guess what? I got a free download on Libby. It was available for Elfie and I was like, "Buckled up, buttercup. Let's give this a listen. It's Cynthia. I will listen to it because it's her." And a man's voice came on. Yeah. Jump scare. Uh yeah, it was like I literally I luckily had a bunch of credits still with uh Audible. So I went and used a credit. I was like, "Hell no, I would have paid for the I'd pay the $15 if I had to because Cynthia's voice is beautiful and majestic." And it literally is so fitting for Alphaba. Why would you put a man's voice, though? It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. It would be weird. So sorry. Sorry. No, no hard feelings. Eduardo Ballerini. Um, but no, I didn't listen to you enough to have an opinion other than you're not Cynthia. You didn't even go here. So, the rating was 4.4 stars for him with the average rating being a 4.1 on Audible. And then Cynthia's narration I looked into was a 4.7 obviously compared to the 4.4. Um, so there you go. And then someone I just highlighted this one star review from Cynthia's Audible. So one star. This book was disappointing. The best thing about this book was Cynthia Arivos reading reading it to me like a bedtime story every night. Yeah. Yeah. So redeeming quality bumped it up a star for her. Yeah. I mean really. And I mean honestly there was a lot of because they the majority of this book takes place in quadling country and so there's a lot of different name pronunciations and place pronunciations and I feel like it just flowed like yes none of it sounded clunky or awkward and it just like she did a great job. So as if she wouldn't but you know she did a great job. I mean and what is it like if eight hours at one time speed? Yeah. So, if you're wanting to read, if you're thinking about reading Elfie and you're just wanting to go through it, it's quick, it's short, eight hours at one speed, get the one that Cynthia Orivo narrates and you'll be happy. And it's nice. It's a nice easy fun time. And there is an announcement that Cynthia is actually narrating Wicked and that will be released on February 10th on Audible and maybe everywhere you get audio books. I don't know. But I found that out while looking up these reviews. So she is in the process of narrating that. So that would be incredible as well for sure. So, if you're you've watched all of our movies or whatever these are called, listen to all of our podcasts, watched all of our videos, trying to decide if this wicked series is for you, and you want to read an audio book. Hey, Cynthia's coming out February 10th. Definitely recommend that. Yeah, for sure. So good. Do you have any bonus questions for me on the fly? No, no, no. I think that's I think that's everything. Oh, cash grab. Not cash grab. Ooh.

I'm going to say not a cash grab necessarily, but a way for kids to enjoy an expanded Wicked universe in a way that they weren't able to before. Yeah. So maybe that makes it a cash grab, but at the end of the day, I think that the positive might outweigh the negative if more kids are able to get excited about Wicked and go pick this book up and read it because I mean really honestly like that just wasn't a possibility before. I mean, a kid could go try to read Wicked, but good luck. You know what I mean? It's like even if you did, you probably wouldn't understand it or you'd be bored with it in five minutes and move on, you know? So, I feel like um so maybe call that a cash grab, but at the end of the day, I don't know. I think that that contributes enough value to make it worth it. What do you think? Um I would say that plus Well, here's my thing. If Wicked wasn't turned into a movie, would he have written this book? I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. So, I think it's a it's a double-edged question right there. Cuz I mean, who are we to judge whether something feels like a crash cash grab or not, you know? But I think after reading it and seeing the tone and seeing her grow up with you grow up with Elfie, exactly that, I think this is better for a younger audience to get introduced into the world. For those the parents like me who have a daughter chomping at the bit, please let me read it. And I'm like, but really, no. And uh this would satisfy that expansion of the universe without having anything too triggering or you know like slaughter there is a little bit but with it's within that age group you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah maybe a cash grab but like ultimately I think a positive like addition for that reason you know. Yeah. So it could go either way depending on your interpretation but that's what I think. a very I mean strange that they didn't hype it up more. Yeah. So that's why it's also makes me want to say not a cash grab because I literally didn't know about it. I mean my husband and daughters picked out the whole book series for me last Christmas. I guess Elfie wasn't out yet, but they you would think they would have like coming soon pre-order, you know, and I didn't see it until I was just randomly walking, you know, Barnes & Noble as we do. And I was like, "Oh, what's this?" Mhm. You know, yeah, there was no hype around it. I think Yeah, there should have been more hype. I think if maybe if they packaged it as something maybe even for, you know, early high schoolers, you know, something like that. The marketing was non-existent. Yeah. Maybe they just felt like if we throw it on the bookshelves, people will get it. Yeah. But I think that's a disservice in a way. Mhm. For those parents that were saying, what can they have instead of wicked? Yeah. You know, well, because I think it just it adds value to the fandom, you know. It's like because it's like, you know, they're going to capitalize. There's going to be so many cash grabs for Wicked, right? It's like we've seen it everywhere. There's everything from dolls to makeup to cereal to every, you know what I mean, Stanley? Yeah. It's like they're going to make as much money off of this as they can. So, like why not actually include a younger age group book that actually brings true value to the fandom? You know what I mean? Yeah. But that is a separate entity. Those are separate rights at this point. So that's separate money backing it. Yeah. But it is weird. It is weird. Mhm. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like the publishing houses is very different than Universal. You know, for sure. But you would think they would try to ride that somehow. Talk to have some negotiations. I don't know. Something. Give us something. Yeah. I mean, I just found it on the shelf cuz um I don't know if you guys can see but cuz I tabbed it. But yeah, it's got like a cool like stencled edge which I actually really liked. And I just found this like on the shelf at Target like randomly. Yeah. Um, this would actually be a cute cute, you know, interesting miniseries that they could make for younger audiences, you know, that want more from Wicked. Mhm. I could see that. Alphaba, for sure. Yeah. But anyways, anyways, enough of us speculating of all the wicked things they should make. I know now that we talked about books and advertisements and movies, miniseries. Um, I h I did find just a little fun fact about um Elfie, so specifically the prequel, which I did notice already just because we have the paper copy of the book, but Gregory Magguire actually dedicated this book to Adena Menzel, Cynthia Arivo. Um, did he only dedicate it to them or did he also dedicate it to Argalindas as well? I can't remember. Sounds like just the Elfies. Let me see. probably just the Elfies, but let me double check. But yeah, I thought that was really sweet um for Adena Menzel and Cynthia Revo for all the alphabas past and to come. And so I did really love that because, you know, I feel like we've all watched a lot of our favorite book series get turned into movie and TV adaptations. And the amount of personality and talent that both Adena Menzel and Cynthia Revo bring to Alphaba's characters just so insanely amazing. Yeah. That it's like I I just love that he dedicated this book to them. So that was a fun fact. A sweet. It's sweet. I can't wait to watch it. I think we're going to go on Saturday night. I cannot wait. I'm freaking out. When this is posted, you have already have seen it and I'd be seeing it this evening. It's going up on a Friday. the Friday after. So guys, did you see it yet? Get your homework done. We'll see it. Let us know how you like it. I am already I already told my husband I'm like I need to bring one of those little like travel pack of tissues because I know it's going to take me out like Yeah. Okay. Well, do you have any last words to say? I mean, this is crazy. Like this has been a journey. I cannot believe like all of the wicked books are done. Yeah. So far, obviously. So, ranking and wrap up and where we talk about the movies and everything and rank and and everything all of it will be next week, next Friday. So, make sure you are subscribed and following everywhere you like to listen to your podcast, including YouTube and then Instagram and Tik Tok. We're besties in the books podcast everywhere. So, come hang out, send us your thoughts, um, opinions, negative, positive, all that. Maybe we can read some off in the next episode. Yeah, we can rant and rave about the movie together. Yeah, totally. All right, you guys. We'll see you next Tuesday and next Friday. Next Friday. Bye. Bye.