SHOOKED & COOKED after reading Hunger Games MOCKING JAY! | Book 3 Review & Summary | Bonus Minisode

Welcome back to Ashley & Liz’s dystopian sci fi episode bonus series: The Hunger Games!

Today we get SERIOUS as we discuss the amazingly well written, heart wrenching grand finale to the original trilogy. What parallels do we see reflected in real life? Are the dystopian themes regarding media control, rebellion, war, government control, environmental degradation and resource allocation applicable to today’s world? Come with us as we open these topics of discussion through a Katniss Everdeen lens.

If you’ve been following along and watched our “From 1984 to Hunger Games” dystopian themes in media and literature episode then you know we’re fascinated with everything about this genre and need to delve into this discussion! It just happens to be a BIG bonus that Ashley had never read it before. 

The debate currently on the book talk table is whether or not books (and the act of reading) are inherently political. We’d encourage anyone who has a doubt in their mind to read this series… with themes like media control, a totalitarian regime, and rebellion, it’s hard to see how it ISN’T political.

Episode 3 covers book 3: Mockingjay by Suzanne Collins. The first five-ish minutes are spoiler free with our one sentence rapid star reviews. Then we jam pack this mini episode with an entire plot summary in five sentences (yes, with a keyboard…), discuss what our faves and fail characters and plot points are, our feelings, notable quotes, and add a fun piece of Hunger Games trivia. 

Then we wrap this trilogy up with the ultimate Gale vs. Peeta debate. Were these characters meant to represent something much larger than themselves? We’ll see… and then we’ll dive right into A Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes… because obviously Snow was a smash. 😉

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Ashley is wearing “I’m a Book Dragon” Clash of Tides tee from the Author Alivia Maar @livesbookshelf (gifted in PR.)

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Chapters

• 0:00 Spoiler Free Intro
• 7:50 Hunger Games Mocking Jay Book Review
• 13:37 Mocking Jay Book Summary and Deep Dive
• 20:37 Favorite and Least Favorite Things book 3
• 47:04 Dystopian Themes in this book
• 48:54 Surprise Questions!
• 58:41 Team Peeta or Team Gale
• 1:06:22 Notable Quotes in Hunger Games Mocking Jay
• 1:10:23 Hunger Games Fun Fact

Transcript

0:00

[Music] welcome to the besties in the books podcast I'm Liz and I am Ashley and Welcome to our official part three of our six part minseries to the Hunger Games am I giving eie you are for sure yeah the way she says the Hunger Games The Hunger Games May the odds be ever in your favor even though we know the whole system is rigged welcome to real life and The Hunger Games as and panm panm okay o I have a good fun fact about panm leader yeah can't wait stay till the end we're dropping fun facts so you guys this is our dystopian sci-fi kind of Series where we kicked it off with our fulllength episode where Liz and I discuss where dystopia themes came from in popular media why we're so obsessed with them you know the drill and then we did you know our first official mini episode which was Hunger Games book one just titled Hunger Games and then we had the second episode being Catching Fire and now we're here to bring you a deep dive slash you know our thoughts and opinions and Vibes on book three into mocking jay so that's what we're going to be doing today here we are mocking J epic conclusion to the original trilogy the original trilogy so from after this we have to go back in time to the prequel of uh number four which is is the ballad of song birds and snakes which is leading us up to the newest release coming out which is another prequel somebody else's point point of view somebody else's story which I it's already announced right it's H's story yeah yeah comes out on what March 18th sunrise on the reaping so excited oh I also before I forget I didn't want to mention this until this episode specifically um if you guys I know that we have some listeners who are local to Humbolt County if you are local to Humble County books in downtown eure will be doing a midnight release party for sunrise on the reaping so come hang out with us I'm going to be there I'm going to Rally I'm going to have a cold

brew at like 8: 2:17

00 p.m. or maybe even later to try to keep me up so that we can go have a good old time because I want to support yes local go support local bookstore wanting to do a midnight release party especially when it's uh has to do with hungry GES cuz we're all so excited to read this yeah yeah so if you're local to Humble you know you guys jump on in that go hang out with Liz I wish I could be there but it's just you know about 13 hours away time it's a little bit of a commute for me to you know burn them in on oil but one of these days I'll be able to do some kind of thing like that were putting it out there in the universe that it'll line up right so yeah that be cool but yeah we've been having a lot of fun and you know been crying a lot reading Hunger Games but we're happy to do it my first time reading lizz's reread and it's it hits different for you you know it does it does just yeah I mean there's different than the first time she read it when she was 20 something yeah we just talked about that there's a big difference between reading these books when you're like in your like let's say early to maybe the latest mid 20s versus um Mid to Mid to later 30s um yeah it definitely it's different for sure that and like literally starting it in such crazy times that we are experiencing in the United States at this moment was like a little difficult but you got to do it cuz you know yeah we talk about how people say books aren political give me a break give me a break you know we're seeing parallels while reading this of like how things could devolve into such a place mhm is not that far of a stretch yeah yeah I think that you know we talk about this all the time but it's like obviously like art is inspired by reality but also re reflects reality as well so you know it's just these are the skills that you learn you're supposed to learn in high school right uh how to deconstruct those themes and pick it apart in a way that you know helps you maybe interpret real life events better also yeah so here we are we're going to be covering yeah book three mocking J by Suzanne Collins mhm and this book this book was a lot yeah this book was a big one a lot of stuff going on a lot of stuff going on very emotional I think um but you know just like in our other episodes min's included we will start off with our um spoiler-free one sentence star rating review in the beginning that way you guys um you know if you don't want the spoilers you don't have to hear our spoilers um until later when you come back to episode to finish out um but yeah we just we think that this is really important to talk about right now yeah so before we get into that we just want to say thank you for being here thank you guys for being here on our third mini episode and you know any of the episodes you guys listen to we appreciate you guys taking your time out of your day and your book to tune in on to us and see what we have to say make sure to like follow And subscribe anywhere you like listen to your favorite podcast including YouTube and we're at besties in the books podcast everywhere also the same handle over on in stagram and Tik Tok and that's where we put our polls and question boxes everything where we can really get that user participation from you guys we be putting stuff up there too for you to comment along with these videos if you're on YouTube you can definitely utilize comments down below we're always reading them and responding and if you're listening yeah you can slide into our DMS if there's something you have to say about any of these episodes uh and books and everything and then also the fable app is going and will stay up for all these Hunger Game reads so if you're just now reading them or picking them up or if you want to jump in our monthly book club whatever those are all on the fable app at bess's inth book club so check us out there there we go and you better believe sunrise on the reing we be going live on Fable the second they put it on there yes the second it becomes available like I remember when we were talking about these episodes and we were kind of planning out the schedule to see how realistic it would be you know cuz we try to plan out our reading schedule our reading priorities and you know I'm like I honestly think a week between the book release and like us filming the episode is realistic and now that you've read the first three would you say that that's pretty agreed accurate yeah it's like you just can't put them down I mean if if you've been reading the books now you know and if you haven't been here you go every the way Suzanne writes these books suzan the way Suzanne our friend Suzanne writes these books each chapter it's that you can't can't stop it's that book that you're like one more chapter oh gosh okay well one more chapter or like I finish cuz each chapter is almost a little bit of a cliffhanger or something totally and even you tell yourself okay I won't read that whole chapter cuz it's I I see a pattern and I'm not going to read the whole next chapter because that I'm just going to

keep going and I'll be up till 3: 7:17

00 in the morning H I'll just read a couple Pages just to answer this one question CU you know good Lu that doesn't happen

it's 3: 7:26

00 in the morning and you just finally fell asleep because you couldn't stop and I love it not all books can do that no in a not annoying way it's like in an exciting way so it's easy to read it quickly yeah yeah yeah we'll be able to do it you guys can too you guys can too we have faith in you so should we just get into our spoiler-free star rating star ratings reviews let's go you go first this time so five stars for sure for sure this is like one of those you know like I'm just be an annoying person it's an infinity stars you know I give that to very few yeah very few very few get Affinity um but Infinity it is and I would say infinity because it's such important Source material looking into our past and at our present and hopefully you know not our future however I don't want to call it a cautionary Tale But it's definitely like it has enough in there to where hopefully we can read these books and learn something from them we'll just leave it at that for now um and I think that I also rate it a five star because of the fact that I was so deeply invested in these characters plights and the ending completely affected me in a really profound way and very differently than the first time and to me that is a Infinity star because that means that it's going to affect you differently at different stages in your life yeah and that's really cool that's hard for authors to do you know you know now we've this will be our third miniseries that we focused on a really hyped series Harry Potter to us if you missed those episodes didn't it's not you know it's debatable some people obviously love it that read for the first time as adults we had a hard time with it it didn't stand that kind of test of time of like age groups or Hunger Games think like you just said every age group could find something from it well it's like one of those things this is not the same at all but it's the same it's like I like to do a full rewatch The only show that I do full rewatches of other than friends cuz that's just fun to put in like the background or whatever is Sex in the City and the reason why I do that is because I feel like depending on what age I am cuz I usually do like a few years in between depending on like what age I am it's like I get completely different things from it yeah um and it's like I'm sure some people think it's just like a silly little show but I feel like it's helped me through a lot lot of things personally and so I feel like Hunger Games now that I've reread it cuz I just read it that once before um it will probably be a series that I reread again yeah um just because I don't know maybe every like five or eight years or something like that I'll be like I'll pick that up and like just see what I can glean as you know an older version of myself yeah from it you know I think that's really unique yeah for sure I mean like you mentioned friends how many of us were like didn't realize how toxic Ross was and now that we're in our 30s we're like oh my gosh he's so problematic you know he's hilarious but like oh what a yuck guy you know I always think of that episode where he was he going back to his ex-girlfriend's house to get his sweater and he ends up under the couch while she's like making out with her new date or whatever salmon blouse yeah his salmon shirt yeah and I just think about that like imagine if your ex was hiding under your sofa yeah guys like that's not okay yeah so that's a good example for sure just like a light-hearted example but yeah it's like we just we I'm a completely different person than the last time I read The Hunger Games yeah and I will be probably again next some people you know on surface level think oh Hunger Games it's like crazy this book where people like have to fight to the death and there's like that love triangle you know it's so much more than that like so much more so but every stage might different high school they might be more focused on the love changle that's happening you know and then in your 20s you're seeing a mix of things and right now because of the state of the world and everything that we're F able to focus on this portion of it where it's is more of this dystopian theme and the atrocities that are going on between the districts and the capitals capit yeah I think that it's like the difference between like when you're younger I think you tend to focus a little bit more on like you know like the I don't know like drama just between characters yeah the character drama and it's like the older you get I think the more you're able to zoom out yeah totally and I think that that is what makes it really visual description yeah cuz it's like yeah these characters in their plate is important right but it's like they're a drop in the bucket compared to what's really going on unfortunately you know yeah yeah so I'm five stars as well um my review is that yeah I didn't really understand how they were going to be able to wrap up this trilogy how are they going to do it but they did it and I was satisfied so yeah it's like while I texted Liz like it's going to be while I hadn't finished yet I said it was going to be it's going to be hard to jump back into the prequels it is but it's not you know so you're left satisfied so if you're wondering like is it leave like really open-ended and frustrated no you know it it wraps up so in such a way yeah I think it wrapped up in a in a satisfying way I'm not going going to say happily ever after or not like cuz obviously we're spoiler-free it's just just it you you're content enough content enough yeah um but I wouldn't be mad at it if like later on down the line good old Suzanne called us up and said I'm going to rate some more yeah great keep going like don't stop so for sure yeah there's always more to the stories that can be told but you know there have been books out there in the world that leave you totally like well what the heck you know this is not one of those this is one of those you feel satisfied and it's very like realistic it's realistic ending yeah so I appreciated that mhm so yeah should we get that said yeah I don't know what that was Flames Flames Flames Flames hunger Flames FL hunger flam spoilers upcoming that's your jarring sound to say SK outle get on get if you don't want to hear any full on official spoilers but if you're here you probably are in it for the long haul and we appreciate you we do appreciate you but if you need to go we also appreciate you don't feel like I don't it's just I get it if you don't want to hear spoilers yet if you're really reading this gosh and yeah this is the this is the Ser you don't want spoilers get out of here like I'm yelling you can save it to your playlist you know put a little reminder if you're still reading it and for the first time because we are going to spoil things 100% and you don't like I went into this fully blind I only remember these vague little random pieces that I was like this doesn't make any maybe that's a different movie what is happening in my head so like I know pretty much do nothing nothing yeah which is great that's where you want to be you want to be clueless going into this I just had this discussion with my sister who's watching Game of Thrones for the first time I was like make sure you're not seeing any spoilers anything because now you're watching Game of Thrones weird stuff's going to pop up on your feet blinders blinders 100% blinders she's like I feel like she thought I was like overreacting but I'm like no the whole thing with Game of Thrones is like you don't know what's going to happen and I want you to enjoy yeah those unexpected surprises good or bad you know and that's how Hunger Games is so leave yeah so go on and get even if you watch the movies stop it read the books yeah all right so five cent in summary let me get the piano guys go here we are five sentence summary for the Hunger Game I've been waiting to do that jump scare that just got to freak me out jeez for those of you not watching and just tuning into to the third episode without watching the first two I have a giant keyboard Casio keyboard to encourage Liz with each sentence to give her a little dingling sound dingling we're back to that great we stopped we stopped saying that word for a second but it's back it just feels right just go with it okay um so the five sentence summary for the Hunger Games book three mocking J okay let's go catniss wakes up in District 13 the home of the rebellion and the underground District that the capital said was destroyed during the war but in reality is going strong and is in control of many weapons including nuclear bombs which is why the capital hasn't destroyed them Dash District 12 was bombed and no longer exists but Gail got a few survivors including their families[Music][Laughter][Music] out that's a good one guys it's a good one that last note you just like hold yeah satisfying okay Katniss realizes that her rescue was orchestrated by president coin and District 13 so that she can Aid them in uniting all of the districts using propaganda against the capital so they can finally be strong enough to invade and take over but she resists because she doesn't want to be upon for another political agenda and she wants to make sure all of the other surviving Victors get immunity including Peta who wasn't rescued but is in the capital being tortured o nice MH that was a good one two two coin agrees to Grant all the victors immunity so that Katniss will cooperate and sends in a rescue party to retrieve Peta who is so brainwashed and traumatized that he tries to choke Katniss to death that was crazy crazy by way but who they eventually reverse hijack into being mostly functional if not completely racked with PTSD yeah things are looking better I thought it would be good to go deep to high but now I don't know about that choice choice see how this goes darker and CRA well you know we love a ju Theos over here so okay Kat's trains to go on a somewhat fake mission to film propaganda material in active War zones when it turns very real bog so Dash bogs her squad leader is killed and transfers rank to her and she decides to move forward to kill snow herself rather than turn back and because her crew trusts her they[Music] follow I'm just have to go with them and then they did a jig and it was all[Music] good I love it okay here we go here we go in the final push to Snow's Mansion a bomb tactic that Gail devised kills Prim and almost kills Katniss fin is eaten by mutations or mutations I'm not sure how you say that and coin decides mutations or mutations yeah and coin decides that snow will be executed publicly by Katniss by an arrow through the heart but in her final Act of rebellion because coin wants to have another quote unquote final Hunger Games she kills coin instead the people mob snow and kill him and then a new president is elected they paron Katniss and she and Peta go back to 12 to salvage whatever they can of their rest of their lives the end but we got to do one more of these cuz it felt so[Music][Laughter][Music] good that felt more appropriate that note might need to come back in the next uh episode we do that's just feels so good I don't know why it's good it's very like BL yeah it gives President Snow it gives that VI and that's his uh prequel coming up next so yeah it's very President Snow so I think we'll might have to save that one the French horn for anybody yeah we're putting that into the episode so we don't forget that's why it's so good to have a Casio Keyboard on hand Casio please sponsor us even though that's weird go yeah I guess we're sponsoring this weird book podcast okay he whatever works what other book what other podcast do you listen to that brings out a new musical instrument all the time you know name it that isn't FOC on music yeah yeah yeah not a music podcast book podcast I guess you know so all right we have five stars five sentences thank great job Liz that was an emotional book I detracted from that a little bit with my playing I apologize no no no need to apologize I feel like cuz it could very easily just take us to the bad place so it's good to have a little bit of the you reminding me of all the bad things for sure thank you for that like so it's good to remember it's good RP like dude that was it was brutal it was a brutal book it was all of them were emotionally but you know this one was for different reasons my favorite part of this book was when catniss impulsively decides to shoot coin that was my favorite part oh wow look at us I did not see that coming I need it I was trying so hard to figure out like that's what was so great about and why this tone was different from me because we really get to see Katniss fully accept that you know she does stand for hope they she is a pawn for everyone and she needs to make her own stance instead of just cuz she kind of goes with where she's led to in the way that she believes you know but she's not pulling the strings she's not pulling the shots literally she finally pulls her own shot and that I screamed oh my gosh whoo cuz I you know I didn't like that lady Bad News Bears and you can see how we're just going to end up in the same problem that we've been in I mean Katniss even says that in her inner monologue you know I didn't know how she was going to do this cuz you once you get rid of snow that's next in line how are you going to do this they're all they and they want to kill Katniss too and she does it yep yeah I agree she likes to elaborate on that at all um yeah I mean yeah it was my favorite part because I again I didn't see it coming either I mean obviously this time I knew it was going to happen the first time I was like I probably screamed too you know um I think that it really just it makes you think also it's like one of those deeper parts of the book that I think is really needs to be kind of picked apart and I think a lot of people probably do spend a lot of time mulling that over because as I said before it's like I think this is the book of like ethical dilemma yeah you know it's like how like obviously okay okay you know we are utilizing District 13 and their uh knowledge weapons strength history to be able to you know overthrow this tyrannical government um that has enacted The Hunger Games right so in that way it's good like right so it's like it's kind of like this okay it's good coin's the one that's in charge we don't really know like I don't think we know how coin came to be in charge do we I don't think so I don't think so either okay but she got somehow put in charge we don't know if that was an election process or if she just kind of like took charge in all the Fallout of what happened I don't know um but it kind of brings up a lot of questions of the decisions and choices that we make especially during times like that need to come from like what kind of school of Ethics do you I guess like subscribe to yeah and are you willing to sacrifi what are you willing to sacrifice for like let's say the good of the many for example yeah um and which many are those and you know so I think that that's what I appreciated about this book and that ending specifically is that you know katus made that choice to essentially assassinate a president yeah which you know we on her side because of her perspective but what other perspectives do we perhaps not know yeah um and how might that affect things moving forward in ways that we don't understand because she is seeing this whole world Through The Eyes of what a 17 or 18-year-old yeah what so not to say that what she did wasn't the right choice because it probably was I don't know but we don't know like we're literally seeing this through essentially like a very young adult or a child's perspective well I think we're given some of that like justification in the fact that she wanted to enact another H oh totally because then you're faced with oh so this is just who is the lesser of two evils mhm you know and that kind of like is the the secretly Sinister one you know which is always a horror to in and of itself or the ones that are outwardly oppressing people well but we have to also like we'll just play Devil's Advocate we'll just go back and forth CU I think this is the these are the questions that are important when reading books like this that's why we need to bring them up to talk about them right um so the reason why coin proposed to have a hunger final Hunger Games was to essentially prevent them from essentially killing everyone in the capital right it was a compromise it was a compromise so the alternative to that was let's just drop a bunch of bombs on all these quote unquote innocent people in the capital and just kill them all yeah cuz that's what the people wanted the districts wanted so she's like how about we just pick out one child from each thing and Katniss can see like oh this is going to snowball yeah history is repeating itself like what is happening oh my gosh so but let's say that that she okay let's say that Katniss hadn't assassinated coin mhm what would things look like then they would have killed a bunch of people yeah in the they voted to do the they voted to do the Hunger Games yeah so you know what I mean so it's like I think that those are yeah those are the ethical dilemas where it's like it's almost like I think as a species also we're really obsessed with like this binary way of thinking yeah and so we're presented with these two options right like either have another final Hunger Games or kill all of these people outright it's like well hey maybe yeah maybe there's 8,000 million billion other ways to yeah that we could figure this out yeah seriously um and so maybe we need to stop thinking well and we need to realize that and we see a little bit cat through Katniss's eyes how people in the capital like it's not all the same either you know yeah they're they're human beings they all like you know going back to real life you cannot choose where you're born or what body and what skin you're born into you don't choose what side of a border that you're born into so it's a random you no matter what you believe I think that is all agreed upon you could be born in district 12 you could be born in the capital and therefore you are subject to not only nature but nurture you are subject to what you are especially 75 5 years now into hunger G yeah that's a long time of conditioning can we really blame these children of the capital for the sins of their grandfathers you know and the sins of the capital when they're just freaking living their life you know yeah it's a it's a um they're just it's a revenge like that they're just trying to use someone to get out their frustration their anger their turmoil on and yeah well and we have to really think too it's like by let's say yeah bombing all the people in the capital and killing all of the you know quote unquote innocent citizens or whatever you want to consider them to be like are we really resolving any long-term problems no you know I don't know that like violence is really going to resolve the issue necessarily yeah yeah and that's what I appreciated throughout the book too is it was a very introspective book because we only see surface levels a lot of people but we do see a lot of the moral gray aspect in this book like well that's why I'm saying it was like the book of ethical dilemmas because really you know there there's right and wrong but is there right and wrong you know what I mean in situations like this it's like everything's a little bit right and everything's a little bit wrong it's like there's no good yeah there's no good option and it's War there's no good option they didn't give us any good options they needed to take a breather yeah but still I think that what's important to note is like okay we think like okay these are the options that were given and then what did Katniss do she said no there there's another option that you guys didn't think of and this is what I'm going to do and that was so satisfying yeah and so but I think it's an important reminder that when we feel like we understand a whole situation yeah and we think we know and can predict the outcomes yeah that's not real yeah because there's a million other things that could potentially happen all the time yeah yeah um yeah but yeah that was definitely my favorite part for sure yeah it's crazy man what would you say was your least favorite part of this book to lighten up the mood a bit okay honest to God my least favorite part the underground Mountain bunker in District 2 being called The Nut dude if there was any critical I have in the entire books it's that I it took me out it's the only thing that took me out out of the story every time they said we got to explode the nut we got to go after the nut well what's funny about that oh my gosh is like I think I blocked it out because in my memory and this I think must be from like another book or a movie or something I kept thinking of it is the hive yeah maybe they changed it in the movie we'll have to out maybe we'll have to figure that out yeah because I agree with you that was terrible yeah that was not a good choice I don't know whose idea that was but Suzanne Suzanne come on San Collins come on that's funny because that really bothered me too it really bothered me everything else as horrific as it is you know it's an obv it's intentional of course so that was like that's like an actual literary critique I have yeah like gave us the the I it cringed us out me the I took me out I had to laugh at inappropriate Parts which is fun too but like come on yeah yeah yeah yeah that's funny what about you was your least favorite part well mine of course was way more depressing than that um well no that wasn't my least favorite part okay so uh I was very upset when Finnick died obviously I was very upset when Prim died obviously um I remember like crying continuously the first time I read that both of those parts um second time I was still very upset for sure but the part that really got me and I like I voice memoed you like after I book I couldn't stop crying after the end of the book because and it's not because something like a another twist or a catastrophe happens it's because the end of the book is just they go back to District 12 to the Victor's Village to try to live the rest of their life yeah and technically they've won the war yeah right so it's like this idea that they won the war they were victorious they get to be free there's no more Hunger Games coin is dead they pardoned Katniss pretty much because they kind of thought she was like a little clinically insane yeah um because of all the PTSD so she and hitch and P go back or whatever and but you know her mom is so destroyed she basically just stays to help with medical efforts like and Gail is now part of you know rebuilding probably their military force I would assume um he's off doing his thing so they're not really friends anymore it's like this idea that they won but no one won 100% and it just really made me super sad to think about that because it was like she's I'm like going to cry right now yeah because it's like she she's open that old wound and you just put so right on it like how you have your tissue right there but it's like her everyone's life is destroyed like yeah what do you do okay yeah it feels the way Miss Suzanne wrote this like you are in it you feel that you feel the like we won but who won and because everybody around me is dead besides the select few and now I have to go pick up my pieces and continue on this life that I wanted to share with all these people that died in order to get this part to life of life well and you're mentally emotionally destroyed destroyed like you are Peta is he is I appreciate that she talked about that like the flashbacks that randomly affect them and navigating that world and not immediately going into their happily ever after no I mean arguably so much I don't know that they ever got there happily ever after you know it it says you know that she and Pete end up getting married they have kids and like 15 years later she finally decides that she can take that risk cuz she was always you know why would she want to bring a child into that World Hunger Games yeah so you know but that's the closest they could hope to ever get to a happily ever after you know and it's like yeah that just really made me super super upset um for lack of a better way of putting it it's like heish always kind of represented that yeah because he was broken from the beginning and he never really got any better yeah um and like we love his character but he was like an emotionally destroyed character from day one yeah um and so it just kind of showed that it's like everything is broken yeah and I guess no one really wins no one really wins and I guess it's like you you know you have to start from somewhere so it's like you know it's like the old Fight Club adage you know only when you've lost everything are you free to do anything and so it's like maybe that's kind of like the take but like at the same time I think she just did a really good job of showing the devastation and the fact that it's just you know it might take another 75 years yeah for anyone to start living normally and happily and that's only if you know and she talks about this Lear we can learn yeah and she talks about that in the end we don't allow history to repeat itself I talk about that yeah talk about a lot throughout it yeah some of my like notable quotes I'll share later specifically about that because but yeah that was really like super um intense and upsetting for sure because I think the first time I read it being like in early 20s is age it's like just different eyes you know what I mean different eyes different brain and so to me yeah I was sad but it was like they won they're going to rebuild they're going to go back to District 12 and like things are a mess right now but like you know it's just it's a different hopeful take yeah and I think that you know now being 36 it's like not that those things couldn't still happen but it's like you have more perspective on the big picture and about how much work and energy and years and time that would take and how for some reason the human race just keeps making bad choices over and over again um but yeah so that was definitely my least favorite part but also in the defense of it being my least favorite part it was necessary and written really well so yeah I wasn't upset about it yeah being written that way yeah I think I was a little I the phix death was written so accurately to probably what would you would feel in real life cuz so much was happening but I was I didn't get to feel that like balling impactful cry with him because you had to move on to the next thing so she wrote that so well cuz you're almost like it's like a war scene you have all this crazy freaking stuff happening and she the you are even though she's narrating you feel like you're in there with her you're in Katniss's head experiencing these things firsthand and you don't have time to process that death you know yeah you have to survive you have bit later but like that was crazy yeah that was crazy yeah I think what got me was you know the and I have the the imagery of the movies in my head too so I think that that kind of contributed as well you get that like really intense imagery of the mutations you know obviously like pulling him down and then you know catniss I can't remember what the code word is but basically you say whatever the word is to get the um little thing to blow up yeah yeah it's like she does that and throws it down so that it's like it's a mercy it's a KO moment you know it's the same kind of thing and that really was upsetting for sure yeah and then obviously the prim situation was terrible yeah I like what she talks about in that after effects is like because she didn't wasn't allowed Pro like time to process their deaths it they don't feel real and that's so realistic I think for people that have experienced things like that it's like when you're forced to move on move on move on and it's like wait but I need to take a breath here you know and allow them that moment it was crazy it was so written so well it was written really well who was your favorite character in this book I mean I had a lot of characters I really liked so I'm just trying to like pick one that are like maybe different um so I put Joanna and Chita I'm not really sure I don't remember how you say her name yeah um yeah those were my two favorites for sure I think we got to know Joanna a lot better yeah I liked that you know they trained together got ready um together I don't know it just they had kind of like a c camaraderie that came from experiencing that that trauma together yeah um I wish that like Joanna's story would be one I'd want to read yes yeah 100% um so I really liked her Cita I really just liked her character and in the movie she was like such a badass that like I just yeah really enjoyed her a lot yeah this was an interesting book because my perspective on some people shifted a little bit okay um but I'm going to have to do a shout out for bogs bogs was a pretty awesome because he was very much like a yes ma'am to coin but like he also saw more behind the scenes and saw the injustices and how they were going to just fall into the same Capital trap that you know they don't want to do and he helped push that along push kis along and give her some little side tips so go with that one he was a great character for obviously and obviously Katniss you really got to see her grow into herself and take the reins yeah I mean I feel like all the main characters like I liked petore I liked you know I feel like a lot of people this is where you would get um really polarized on Gail um and so we can talk about that at the end when we talk about our Peta versus Gail moment but yeah um you know I liked Gail I obviously like Katniss all the way through so yeah I just I feel like there was a lot of great characters yeah her whole little group but they're also kind of surface level mostly cuz it's Katniss is experiencing and digesting all of her own stuff so it's really her internal monologue most of the time and her little interactions with people yeah so but I think I understood I got to understand peta's character a bit more in this we got to really see him evolve that's for sure yeah change grow become more multi-dimensional you know and kind of you know grow up a little bit even though it's a really horrifying way yeah for sure who was your least favorite character coin yeah coin obviously and I got to say uh Gail I really stopped liking in this one interesting he bothered me he did because I just definit ly felt like he was withholding information from Katniss deliberately and um it was probably out of spite for her relationship with Peta so I thought like it was very immature yeah it's different if it's like if it's like a Zaden situation he's helping with a rebellion he has to keep it yeah but no it felt like very like I'm not going to tell you because yeah you are into Pea or whatever I think you are you know like catniss is literally the reason why they're able to move along at this point in time and yet they purposely withhold stuff for her I know she's a little like you know she has her own trauma she's dealing with but like I don't know it just really bothered me and and I also we got to see that sight of him that was very vengeful and bomb bomb bomb and militaristic not mil I what's the word not materialistic military literally goes and does that militant you know so he's gonna fall into that same thing so this was the book that I'm like I'm done with you goodby guys very like the only way to fix this is by getting revenge and yeah it's that's how it felt anyway like in the end yeah MH um I have a random thing that just popped into my head that I thought about and I thought about it in the past before but like since we're talking about it so like obviously President Snow is who he is and we take him down and he's evil and bad right okay um I did also like that he basically just died in the end by getting mobbed by yeah but I love that he laughed like that was such a crazy chaotic moment that was like you know well I'm excited because it's like we're reading a ballot of song birds and snakes right now so you'll get his backstory yeah yeah find out where he's coming from um but okay so obviously we have that cool great that's the perspective that we're coming from even in the United States right where here we are still with um only men yeah as presidents okay do you think that like I want to this is what I'd ask Suzanne colins Suzanne please answer this question I wonder why do you do you have any insight on this like coin was a woman yeah so it's like she represented almost like this new yeah government like this new way of being the new the revolution as does Katniss right it's like she's the mascot if you want to say and then the president is a woman too yeah like I feel like that must have been intentional I don't know you know what I mean like what does that say like that's interesting it's like we finally get a woman president and then she gets assassinated before she even takes over because she's just going to do the same make the same mistakes yeah that's interesting yeah that is interesting cuz it's like I think in a lot well cuz I feel like in a lot of dystopian fiction or whatever I mean look at it it's very common to have female leaders yeah in dystopian fiction yeah um I I don't know yeah what to add to that yeah I'm just curious like I don't know maybe you guys have some thoughts on that like why that would have been a choice and then was replaced by a guy yeah exactly and then I mean was very not long for this world maybe because at the beginning for the reader to have a female president it to be like to show look at it's so different but then really at the end of the day no they're no different you know maybe doesn't matter what gender it is because they you know power corrupts power and if they're still following the same framework they still following and we like you said we don't really know the full District 13 backstory they might have wanted to be the rulers and the capital wanted to be the rulers and whatever one want or maybe we don't know coin's whole ENT entire story and we don't know what's happening with her you know what I mean so that could have been another part of it too yeah that's crazy how did this book make you feel this I mean I feel like this book made me feel really just like very emotional specifically like about the ending for sure and you know I'm the type of person where it's like unless it's like sci-fi or fantasy like I do not watch war movies yeah like I don't so it's like okay I don't count like Lord of the Rings doesn't count Game of Thrones doesn't count Star Wars doesn't count okay that's not what I'm saying it's fantasy and sci-fi like throw a war movie about like actual reality in front of me and I'll be like absolutely not I not watching that I don't want to feel what that's going to make me feel it's going to be terrible and so I feel like books are so different especially this being obviously dystopian fiction written for young adults um but it still made me feel a lot of those things um but I did appreciate that the themes make you kind of grapple with your own ethics yeah yeah yeah so I I appreciate it it's a think I felt like I need to do some thinking MH yeah for sure so it made me feel emotional but like in a way that was useful yeah agreed mhm mhm yep would you say that's pretty much yeah same samies do you have any unanswered questions now that that trilogy is closed I mean yeah for sure but like nothing that's like frustrating but like everything that like yeah I want to know more like like I said would I be mad if she was like I'm going to come out with another follow-up Trilogy that's oh yeah found out why he smells like blood that was a little anticlimactic to me yeah I mean we find out that he's poisoning people so that's why he gets to keep his power so that's not necessarily animatic type but he has sorce from taking the poison too yeah and then the antidote so yikes I don't know I just really thought he was drinking people's blood he not he's not that exciting okay um and then I think that was only I don't I didn't have any I don't think I had any unanswered questions no for me it was more so just like I would love to know more about so many of the characters like literally if every single one got their own book got their own book I'd be 100% stoked about that yeah vck needs his own book Joanna needs her own book like yeah I feel like I'd like to know where are they now it's like a what is that uh bh1 where are they now where are they now yeah but it will be good to read about hitch's story for sure yeah yeah dystopian themes uh that stuck out to me would be like you know yeah in war who's really good and who's really evil you know is there any like you talk we went into length about at the beginning of the episode that's exactly the dystopian theme that stuck out to me so well yeah it's like the Victor writes the history yeah right it's like that's kind of it ties in with that you know repeats itself yeah those are all very dystopian themes it's like that you know comes down to I guess technically that would be media control but yeah it's like obviously like the history books are teaching whatever whoever won the war is the one writing the history books and teaching future Generations what happened yeah so that is important for sure so I feel like all the same dystopian themes that we said before um and then I think just like this idea of like you know cuz we talked about this a little bit and the D episode but about things like environmental degradation lack of resources um you know degradation of the planet in general like I feel like those definitely I was kind of thinking about during this book more because it's like this idea that District 12 gets completely like annihilated bombed and now they just go move back there and have to just like start over yeah you know that's crazy think about yeah and also like another dystopian theme that I think was important probably in all the books but I think was talked about a little bit more in this one was like the threat of nuclear war yeah um because that's the only reason why the capital was leaving District 13 alone yeah yeah so you know I think that that's pretty realistic as well at this point yeah for sure but yeah those are those are the ones that I had written down yeah my bonus question for you would be were you you happy not really happy but satisfied were you satisfied that she killed coin instead of snow like if she had the option personally to kill coin or snow one or the other like if snow didn't die yeah that was something that I was grappling with while reading it and I didn't fully get to figure out my answer because yeah it's like ooh I think part of why she did kill him or kill coin is cuz she saw snow was on the out like like he was already taken care of yeah um he was coughing at blood and all of that yeah he was not long for this world they didn't know did he get mul did he just die like cuz he's also pretty old at this point like he's not coming back so but however take that out take that out of the equation coin versus snow which one needed to go yeah it' probably be snow from what we know because coin while I disliked her and she seemed to represent the status quo returning to normal of how it has been falling back into that same pattern of the of othering people US versus them cuz we're very much othering the capital citizens who were just born there at this point so um but I think one thing at a time get rid of snow because forward and then move forward and how you're going to get rid of coin and figure well I mean arguably cuz they wanted her to kill snow that was supported right so she could have easily killed snow okay he's gone by and then she could have assassinated coin later yeah exactly you know cuz she wasn't about to get thrown in prison for her crimes for killing snow you know yeah um so then the second part of that question is if you were in her shoes what would you have done would you have killed snow or would you have killed a coin yeah I wouldn't even have thought of that as an option cuz I didn't see it coming yeah there you go so you know I no catniss everine I would have run away I mean yeah books ago oh my gosh has to shoot him in front of everyone like it's so next level then In the Heat of the Moment as a defense which is usually what she's doing this is the first time she's had to really go out there and kill somebody like assassinate someone publicly in I commend that she took that into her own hands for like the first official time that she wasn't um kind of nudged in a certain direction I mean she was she was given information but she also was witnessing with her own eyes and coin wanted her dead so she probably wouldn't have lasted very long anyways yeah okay what about you with the first question snow versus coin without knowing that snow would die um interestingly enough I think I have the opposite answer of view yeah coin coin yeah because I feel like yeah snow would have been on his way out you know yeah but not knowing that not knowing say there's a chance for him to have supporters rise up you know yeah yeah that's hard but I feel like still he's already a war he's already a war criminal that they've arrested you know what I mean so it's like at the bare minimum he's probably going to be in a prison cell until he dies yeah but I loved that flashback that she had remembering what he said is like we promise never to lie to each other MH so knowing that information like especially like if you if what we if what Snow's saying is accurate because we do know he's very charismatic and such did she really bomb all those children you know coin did coin because that's essentially what Katniss decided was what happened in that case yes coin because that she crossed lines she crossed um what is it called there's like games of war no rules of War Rules of Engagement like by that movie from it's propaganda though it's like and you sacrificed and to them it's like well they're Capital children but you sacrificed all these people including her sister and all the Medics that went in to rush well yeah but that's just again to play Devil's Advocate that's just a classic like ethical school of thought if you can sacrifice let's say 50 people yeah to save everyone else yeah yeah then maybe it's worth it yeah is it those are things that you have to decide for yourself you know but like he was saying he's like I was done I had nowhere to go and she chose to do this she chose to bomb he's like if I had an airplane I would have gone I would have I would have left this place Mansion you know and she still chose to bomb it so for what then because did she really need to do that yeah at that point in the thing the war it was like the freaking ground was imploding like everything is chaotic they're done they've seized the capital they have usess like what's the point and then he still went through with pushing the button that kind of like showed who coin really was if that's really what and obviously at the end of the day Katniss decided that what snow said was truth and at that point what does he have to gain other than a final like yeah but it's also like how much I guess we also don't know as the reader how much power does coin really have MH is she really making the shots 100% And if so why in the world did we give her that kind of power no yeah you know Ian don't know that much about District 13 exactly like what did District 13 do was she again was she elected did she sees power is she wielding power over everyone and just making all these decisions or is that Council of people backing these decisions she's making and then we have a bigger problem at hand you know yeah it's just one fish out of the barrel or whatever exactly so yeah I mean those are some big questions but I do think given the option I would have killed coin instead of snow cuz I feel like he wasn't long for this world yeah yeah I'm see I'm still struggling even though it's hard now I'm remembering all that those reasons that I forgot about you know the children and all those and you know she was out to kill Katniss anyways and she never even wanted Katniss to survive and they just wanted pea and you know her treatment of everybody I mean their R the way they they kidnapped The Stylist and then put them in a dungeon dungeon and then when they stole bread cuz they go from you know I like I forgot to mention in the second book my least favorite part was when they were taking drinks to throw up all the food food the like way that's so horrific as someone who was dealing with starvation on a day to day that people in the capital and I understand why then they're like these people these gluttonous people are eating so much and then purposely throwing it up that of course they have a vendetta against them the wastefulness but then you have District 13 that's the other part of the extreme of completely restricting down to a science like everything and you think that's going to get better it's not like and you have it's just a different form of government control it's just a different form you know and the end of the day nobody wants any of that I wish any I wish they could I wish we could live in a society that people can self-govern but that's just not realistic unfortunately we've seen so you know someone there has to be there can't be full Anarchy I know people will disagree with that but there can't be like to to then we'll see what happens yeah good luck someone's going to take over like eventually someone's going to take over there is going to be what kind of lesser of evil do you want like there's not going to be a perfect Society yeah I mean that's I was going to say that's a very like deep philosophical debate yeah we even talked about Utopia you know and that and there were still people being oppressed in the original you know yeah they they enslaved people they're like oh there's no rules in this there was like a book a Utopia book that started all of this you know partly and so you have like there's no rules and there's no law cuz it's Utopia everybody self-govern but yet you do have servants that do the manual labor but that's okay because they're prisoners or criminals or criminals well what are their crimes if nothing's criminal yeah that doesn't make any sense it's like inherently flawed yeah I was just thinking about it's like yeah what do you how how do you live I don't know it's crazy I mean I was just thinking I don't remember what grade it was in I I don't remember what grade it was in but obviously you have to talk about all the different like you know philosophers when it comes to like you know like the John locks if you will you know to talk about all these like different like political theories yeah like if our teachers could see us now would they be so proud my giant keyboard and like but that we're choosing to talk about these things for fun yeah yeah for sure well when my daughter was coming home from school yesterday in the car and we're talking to her about getting you know her school workor done and we're and Liz is like wow we literally make book reports for fun and she's back there in the backseat like I don't want to do this it's like wow well get over it yeah get over it maybe one day you will little click one day yeah it's so funny cuz we do I mean and even I was like ah draging your feet get the book report done and now we're just doing it cuz we love it y so okay so let's settle the Gail versus Peta discussion shall we now that we have I mean this is the end like there's no more to go off of with the gay and Peta thing yep other than the movies I guess but yeah but I think that might be different too count of three Gail versus PETA one two three wow yeah what a surprise I mean obvious so I've already kind of talked about Gail he was one of my least favorite people so um he really changed my opinion and obviously Peta did too like I don't think he changed I mean I don't think he changed my opinion I said yeah my opinion of him changed uh I don't like him anymore congratulations we got to see more of him though too so you know we didn't really get to see the full scope of who he is in different environments other than just you know starving and um but also Peta you know we talked about grew as a character under horrendous circumstances and has become more multi-dimensional of a person mhm mhm therefore I can respect him now you know I think Gail it's like it's like that Oprah quote When someone tells you or shows you who they are believe them yeah Gail was always Gail yes yes from the first go you know where he would talk about how much he disagreed with everything that they were doing he always had that militant perspective he always had that anti- you know I guess you could call it anti-establishment perspective whatever you want to say um since the since the Inception of his character yeah um and you know to the point where Katniss even like would disagree with him often times in the beginning before she really grew to understand um the complexity of the situation they were in so you know I really appreciated that about Gail's um character because I think that you know he was thinking about the situation more critically yeah in the beginning and I think that that's important you know he was saying like no this needs to change something's got to give we have to do something we can't just expect other people to do it for us like we have to do something um you know and but then at in the end of the day that there was no Nuance to his character it was the same yep and then he also fell into a you know militant Society or whatever you want to call it like a similar structure it's like it's like the he became part of the structure instead of being impressed by it which you know the again that's another argument that you can have that's philosophical do you have to work within the system to break it down or do you have to work completely outside the system I would argue you know my kind of school of thought on that is you know the Master's tools will not dismantle the Master's house like you cannot use the same tactics to take down the system that you're trying to destroy yeah otherwise you'll just recreate the same problems that is the school of that I subscribe to I know people differ with that that's fine um but I think that you know Peta in my opinion and the reason why he grew on me M he bugged me in the beginning cuz I felt like I like okay we get it you have Immature Immature you have a crash on her you want to keep her alive that's great but at the same time it's like was he immature because he was playing them the whole time yeah cuz we got those little glimpses on the rooftop and in The Quiet Moments and holding her through her nightmares and knowing that this is wrong and the First Act of defiance we actually really got to see within the whole Hunger Games trilogy was Peta giving her the bread yep that was meant for the purposely burned that he knew his mom his to beat him for yeah and gave to her when she was literally on death store about to starve yeah you know so he actually was the first one to start like a resistance within the characters we know you know so yeah he yeah exactly and we got to fully see him for all he is at this point now so so it's like to me it made me reflect on what I knew of PETA yeah same he evolved a lot like forcibly but then also just like naturally I think as a character natur as a character but we also it was always there but he was also really good at hiding it and not being obvious which and musing Katniss noticed in I think it was the second book like he his words are what will inspire people like she's not good with words you know like she can't like don't tell me to I don't know what to do with my hands when the camera goes up you know but she's like where is PETA because he could Inspire the people with the things that he says well I think it's like okay to just circle it back around I think Peta represents the way that so the way that g Gail represents I'm going to work within the system basically using the same TCT the same War tactics the same violent tactics to hopefully fix it right Peta is saying Peta is representing I think the other ways that you could work not within the system to take it down effectively as well MH I think s like a defense versus offense yeah or just like I think he represents like the I'm going to maintain my Humanity through kindness and goodness and helping people and doing things um that I think at the end of the day will allow me to hypothetically sleep at night because I understand that you know blowing up 50 kids isn't resolving this problem yeah just as much as having the Hunger Games isn't resolving this problem um and so you know in the end is it super depressing that the most that they can do is hope to rebuild their lives together in district 12 and quietly essentially like fade off into the sunset like you know yeah that's pretty depressing to think about but then at the same time it's like by him choosing to take his own life back and Katniss's life back and then have these kids that hopefully they can teach a better way to that's a form of resistance within itself that might be more transformative in the end totally yeah yeah starts with you starts with us yeah like individually individual person mhm so I think that's what Peta represents for sure and that's why I think that when people try to minimize the story down a lot of times to a love triangle it really frustrates me because okay fine yeah there's a love triangle for sure but it's like I think what it's really representing is like the different ways that we can navigate a situation like this and catniss it's like their personified version yeah totally yeah that's exactly what it is and Katniss has to figure that out for herself yeah there are the the love triangle is a tool to help the reader really conceptualize this constant to be this way to be that way you know choice and not to say that any way is right or wrong necessarily because I think that that's a really murky mhm idea to navigate but I think that it's a way to not just get us to understand it and see it but like to get young people who are reading these books when they're in middle school high school to understand that concept a little bit better yeah totally totally make it digestible mhm yep crazy you thought that was just going to be an easy G question buckle up buckle up so do you have any quotes that you want to share with the group obviously I don't know if been said yet fire is catching and if we burn you burn with us such a powerful quote though so good okay so I loved this one it's towards the end of the book or maybe middle I don't know it's somewhere in there PanAm at sir I'm going to mess this up census translates into bread and circuses the writer was saying that in return for full bellies and entertainment his people had given up their political responsibilities and therefore their power I think about that I think about the capital the excess of food and the ultimate entertainment The Hunger Games so that's what the districts are for to provide the bread and the circuses mhm I know I highlighted that and shared that to stories so good so good um I also I did like when I found interesting when Peta and Gail she overheard them having that moment of like it's going to be like who is she G to pick me or you and it I think it was Gail that was so he's so Bleak and just like black and white that he's like well it's going to be whoever she can survive with or whatever and she was really upset with how he worded it and I liked that in her monologue she's like that's dumb I can survive just fine without either of them cuz I have been like if anything I they're helpful but like come on I feel like my quotes had a lot to do with peta's character evolving in understanding like the point of how different the two are so he says oh no it costs a lot more than your life to murder in innocent people says Peta it costs everything that you are yeah and then um this one I like the capital's fragile because it depends on the districts for everything food energy even the peacekeepers that police us if we declare our freedom the capital collapses President Snow thanks to you I'm officially declaring mine today mhm towards the end um they said but Collective thinking is usually short-lived we're fickle stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift of self-destruction mhm I highlighted that one too powerful powerful cuz that's something that we can literally put into our lives our literal lives that we all live and all kinds of different books can show that oh sure that those examples okay so here's one they can design dream weapons that come to life in my hands but they will never again brainwash me into the necessity of using them I no longer feel any allegiance to these monsters called human beings despite being one myself I think that Peta was on to something about us destroying one another and letting some decent species take over because something is significantly wrong with a creature that sacrifices its children's lives to settle its differences you can spin it any way you like snow thought the Hunger Games were an efficient means of control coin thought the parachutes would expedite the war but in the end who does it benefit no one the truth is it benefits no one to live in a world where those things happen yep good I mean it's good stuff guys do they teach this in school seriously I wonder because I think like you know we read like I said you know in high school a lot of dystopian books I feel like this would more effectively in a lot of ways teach those themes because they'd be more I don't know it's not Dusty it's not Dusty like some of them yeah it's not Dusty it's like like as much as I loved Brave New World it was hard to digest you know yeah for sure for sure look at we could be talk here for hours like this is our third fourth episode you know we're talking for it's so much to go over and that's not even all of it yeah so well I think that that about wraps up mocking J do you have anything else that you wanted to say about it I don't but do you have a fun fact oh I do have a fun fact fun fun in air quotes now that we're all depressed I know let's see I did find a fact that I thought was really interesting where is it okay here we go the avox are named from the Latin advox meaning out of voice the Latin word PanAm does mean bread but the accent is on the first syllable everyone in the movie accents the second syllable almost as if they're saying PanAm which would be as if they're saying all American m w mhm crazy I was like that's pretty interesting there you go MH there you go cuz I think that you know that's something Ashley and I were talking about when we were watching the first movie is that this is a post-apocalyptic America American story yep and I feel like sometimes you know when we're reading fiction like this it's like we tend to forget that it's like oh it's in like this other world or it's in like this other whatever it's like no this is very specifically like they're literally in Colorado yeah the capital's based around the Rockies because of the mountain range and I did see because I made up this whole elaborate story outside of what we're actually told but what it was like I thought it was like a virus or something like something that force them to all like re whatever it's organize reorganize um well it was um natural disasters and um like food scarcity or something like that they did something so environmental it was environmental yeah global warming like it was an environmental disasters that caused uh A disruption in the status quo for the capital to come in and like reorganize and redistribute the districts so did there was so I was on to something I caught something there I just tended I elaborated but look at I mean there that's always a possibility look at all the Hurricanes and all the fires and we just went through California like there's always destruction going on so it's like how far will it go for something to be like well we have to do this guys for the greater good yeah well it's not harped on too much obviously in these books but like we talked about that in the dystopian episode where kind of like this new wave of um you know ya dystopian fiction stems a lot from the environmental yeah I guess you could call them fears you know I'm using air quotes but basically environmental issues yeah and so that would track for sure mhm there we go all right well we're wrapping that up but I mean we've still got two books left that's I mean that's a lot to unpack and then to be able to go back in time to see where snow came from and it's like I've already read song birds and snakes I loved it um so I'm excited to see what you have to say about it and then we get to read the new one with all you guys I'm so pumped yeah so excited so I hope you guys join us make sure to like follow And subscribe anywhere you like to listen to your favorite podcast including YouTube you can jump on the fable app and search besties in the book Club to join us there especially for that one which again is called sunrise on the reing thank you it'll get in there by the time we film it it'll stick to my brain but you guys thank you for watching and we'll see you in the next one okay bye[Music]