SUNRISE ON THE REAPING … more like WEEPING! | Hunger Games Book 5 Review & Summary | Bonus Minisode

Today we’re discussing the highly anticipated brand new book in the Hunger Games world: Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins. We go back in time (yet again!) to the 50th Quarter Quell, also known as Haymitch Abernathy’s Hunger Games to answer all the questions we still have. How exactly did he become a victor and the gruff but lovable mentor we all grew to love in the original trilogy? What happened to Haymitch?!

This book is full of so many amazing “easter eggs” and tie-ins to the original trilogy. It fills in SO many satisfying blanks while still leaving a little bit up to interpretation. We’re ready to pick this book apart and make all of those connections with you as we celebrate this amazing book and get ready to close this Hunger Games chapter (for now). 

If you’ve been following along and watched our “From 1984 to Hunger Games” dystopian themes in media and literature episode then you know we’re fascinated with everything about this genre and need to delve into this discussion! It just happens to be a BIG bonus that Ashley had never read it before. 

The debate currently on the book talk table is whether or not books (and the act of reading) are inherently political. We’d encourage anyone who has a doubt in their mind to read this series… with themes like media control, a totalitarian regime, and rebellion, it’s hard to see how it ISN’T political.

Episode 5 covers book 5 (or 0.75?): Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins. The first five-ish minutes are spoiler free with our one sentence rapid star reviews. Then we jam pack this mini episode with an entire plot summary in five sentences (yes, with a keyboard…), discuss what our faves and fail characters and plot points are, our feelings, notable quotes, and discuss ALL the easter eggs. 

Then we wrap this up with some surprise questions and some excitement for next week’s final Hunger Games episode because we give our wrap up thoughts, our overall reviews, discuss the movies, and announce our next miniseries starting soon! We can’t wait to see you there!  

Mentioned Source:“We Already Know How Sunrise on the Reaping Ends. That Doesn’t Change Its Impact.”

By: Lauren Puckett-Pope | https://www.elle.com/culture/books/a64233635/sunrise-on-the-reaping-hunger-games-prequel-ending-explained-review/

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Ashley is wearing “Undead Readers Book Club” Tee by @bookbabedesigns | https://bookbabedesigns.com

Liz is wearing “Fire Breathing B*tch Queen” Baby Tee by @chaptercatchers | https://go.magik.ly/ml/2b21c/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Spoiler Free Intro
• 5:22 Sunrise on the Reaping Book Review
• 11:16 Sunrise on the Reaping Summary and Deep Dive
• 17:33 Favorite and Least Favorite Things book 5
• 38:38 Do You Have A Prediction for a Book 6?
• 43:43 Notable Quotes in Sunrise on the Reaping
• 48:50 Dystopian Themes in this book
• 52:02 Connections and Easter Eggs in Sunrise on the Reaping
• 1:03:28 Surprise Questions!

Transcript

0:04

welcome to the Besties in the Books podcast guys I'm Liz And I'm Ashley And today we are here to bring to you part five of our sixpart Hunger Game Dive mini episode series with the episode we've all been waiting for the book release of the spring Miss Suzanne Collins blessed us with Sunrise Sunrise on the Reaping otherwise known as Hey Mitch's story a prequel to Katniss's original trilogy of the Hunger Games So this is our dystopian sci-fi series where we're focusing on Hunger Games We brought you that first episode where we deep dive dove into all of why dystopia media in the media Where does it come from Where does it go Cot you know and it's led us to here So we've done book one which is titled The Hunger Games We've done book two Catching Fire We've done book three The Mocking Jay followed by the prequel of Snow's Story A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes which I am finding out a lot of people skip out on And let me answer that question real quick Should you read Sunbird Songbirds and Snakes before Sunrise on the Reaping Yes An emphatic yes Please just do it It is not to try to trick you to like snow I promise That's what everybody's fearful of which I get but don't worry So Sunrise on the Reaping Trick you We're excited Oh yep That's right We're going to do a deep dive on Sunrise on the Reaping We've been waiting for this book to come out arguably forever right Because it's like if Suzanne Collins writes it then we will read it So here we are Um but you know we're going to be wrapping up It's so crazy that this is going to be our last episode about the books Yeah Um we're going to be wrapping up the series next week with our overall thoughts of the whole series and the movies So we're going to be like ranking the movies We're going to be ranking the books We're going to be saying which you know which one we liked better which characters we liked better in which form Um and just kind of like you know tying everything up as best as we can after finishing this series that's just super impactful in general Yeah I'm like how do you how do you wrap up a series like this especially like in the current like I don't know political climate It's hard to do because it kind of haunts you right Yeah Yeah But it's there Um so just to give you guys a little tiny bit of context in case you know you're just hopping on this because maybe Sunrise on the Reaping is the one you're interested in and you've already you know read all the other books whatever You know we really wanted to examine as Ashley was saying why you know dystopian themes are so popular in fiction and media in general Um and then we really I mean I really wanted Ashley to read these This is this was her first time reading these Obviously this was my first time reading this particular book as well Um but the rest of the series was a reread for me rewatch for me So you know we just we wanted to examine these themes Uh we wanted to take a deep dive into you know something we think is really important right now And then obviously we wanted to be able to read Sunrise on the Reaping alongside all of you so that we could talk about it So and there's so much to talk about guys There's so much to talk about If you ever finish a book and you're like "Gosh I wish I had somebody to you know hash this out with." Come check us out We probably have an episode covering whatever book you're finished and maybe even a Fable book club too Like I was going to mention that You know all these books are up on our Fable You can hop on whenever you want We'll probably keep them up for quite a while Um and that's over at Besties in the Book Club on the Fable app if you guys haven't checked that out And then just to give you guys a little bit of um an idea of what we're going to do here today before we get into the deep dive we are going to do like a quick maybe five minute spoiler free review section Um so if you guys are kind of like I don't know should I bump this up to the top of my TBR Should can it you know wait for a while whatever Find out what we have to say as far as that goes And then you could always save this to listen to or watch later But before we get into any of that we just wanted to say thank you so much for being here Yes Thank you so much for being here Whether you have been a subscriber since the OG original conception of our podcast which is a little it's about a year now We just had our year anniversary or you're jumping on for the first time we would love to have you join our little Bestie Book Club over here at Besties and the Books podcast Be sure to like follow and subscribe anywhere you like to listen your favorite podcast including YouTube We're hanging out over there It's not just a blank screen It's literally us hanging out surrounded by all of our books and our favorite things So it's just a vibe It's just chill You can also follow us over on Tik Tok and Instagram at besties in the books podcast as well You know for this Sunrise on the Reaping I did a bunch of live reading parties So that was kind of fun So if you found us through that thank you for joining us today for our wrap-up video Liz and I have a goal to be able to do like a live reading party together Maybe the next big book that comes out be super fun you know and at the end we could do some spoilers you know just give you guys a bunch of flashes like you know be careful Spoilers coming Yep Yep Okay so let's just kick this off with our spoilerfree ones sentence star review or you know I say we say one sentence What that really means is just like short and concise as best as you can without including spoilers in it Yeah Yeah You want to go or do you want me to go You go first Okay Uh okay Sunrise on the Reaping by Mrs the Suzanne Collins Uh five stars easily for me Um I found this book to be just as entertaining as the other books However I found that compared to all the other ones it probably was the most interesting as far as piecing all the pieces together Yeah And for that reason it's definitely one of my favorites Yeah Yeah Mhm Boom Yeah Zero spice without getting into zero spice Obviously Yeah Without getting into any uh spoilers or details That's that's the basis of my review Yeah Our little quick review snippets at the beginning we just trying to kind of like help guide you if you're on the fence about reading this because like come like come to find out there's a whole Hunger Games fandom that aren't reading these prequels I get I get that it's hard because it's like well it's already done Well no it's not I'll eat it all I'll eat it all up Yeah Well and I think that you know I think we'll talk more about this maybe in the wrap-up episode but I just wanted to mention it a little bit here because it was something it's it's relevant to my review I think that one of the things that Miss Collins is trying to really hammer home by releasing these prequels is that revolution or whatever you want to call it change revolution etc can take a very long time Yeah And I think that what this is doing by going back to Snow by going back to Hayitch is it's really showing that it's like this one and a half or two years span of time that happens during the Hunger Games was only able to happen because of this let's say 75 to 100 years worth if not more than that of history that was building beforehand Totally That's why you need to read these prequels It does not Hunger Games doesn't exist in a vacuum Like there's so many other things that are important about it Totally perfectly said Well done So my review will be five stars If you love that satisfying feeling of completing a puzzle o you're going to eat this up Okay If you Yeah if you're on the fence about it everything Liz just said like it's just giving so much more context to everything that you know about the Hunger Games trilogy or if you've never read any of them literally start don't start at the prequels start at the publishing dates of Hunger Games and just freaking get obsessed like I did at 36 years old for the first time I'm obsessed So that's basically my review You know everything that we wanted and and so much more because Suzanne is so good at that And I have so much more to say but I'm going to leave it at that Mhm Yeah I just want to say one more thing before we get into spoilers too is that someone had one of our listeners had posted something on their stories to the degree of like should I really read The Hunger Games Are they a little bit too like YA Am I going to be bored Is the writing style a little bit like young No Like please just give them a chance It's like I think we've said it in previous episodes like even if all you do is you just borrow that first book from the library or your friend and give the first two chapters a try Yeah Just do that You know what I mean Like I would I would probably think that majority of people would be sucked in enough just after that initial chapter or two to keep on going So yeah I wouldn't be afraid of it because trust me I get afraid of YA series now Yeah Yeah Yeah Okay After Yeah we get it for sure Yeah It's like after Shadow and Bone and after The Cruel Prince like I It's like Harry Potter Yeah I am I am weary You know what I mean I'm very wary The water's tepid I'm scared I'm scared Yeah So don't be scared though Yeah I feel like the pacing the writing the character development the world everything is expertly done Like just get take a chance on it I think that you'll like it Yeah And I feel like I've said this so many times before and I'm gonna go really into it in a wrap-up episode but like I was one of you Like I only got a taste of the Hunger Games through one of the movies and I was like"Yeah cringey love story No thanks." Oh my gosh was I wrong And I am eating my words right here right now And I'm okay with that I was wrong and I'm so glad I was How wrong I was The same thing happened to me originally when it came out because I remember a lot of my friends were reading it and I was like no like I have no interest in reading that kind of same thing I was like that doesn't sound good to me and then um one of my friends just asked me to go see the first movie and I was like I don't have anything else to do Sure I'll go see the first movie Literally watched that first movie and I was like what have I been doing Like literally what have I been doing with my life I borrowed the trilogy from her and I think just read it all that weekend Um and that's all that was out at that point But yeah it's like yeah I was the same way I was skeptical too I don't know why I don't know Like was the marketing for it not that good I don't know what was going on back then but we'll talk all about that in the movies episode Okay Yeah we'll zip it for now cuz we have more to digest with that too It's true But yeah give it a chance Let's go Jump on this hype train Total lingong be gone If you don't want spoilers go on get get out of here Save it to your playlist listen later because we're going to spoil everything for you And it's such a treat to read this without spoilers Okay Yeah You do not want spoilers Yeah Because like while we we know some things obviously Yeah Oh we don't know it all You might think you're a know-it-all but you ain't You ain't know nothing Okay So five sentence summary Let's do it for Sunrise on the Reaping Ashley's got her keyboard I've got my notes Are we ready Now we are We're ready Okay Hey Mitch Abernathy of District 12 shares a birthday with Reaping Day the 4th of July This year is the 50th Hunger Games and a quarter quell in which each district will reap four tributes instead of two He and his girlfriend Lenor Dove a descendant of the CVY do not get initially picked for the games But after a boy who does not or who does get picked tries to run gets shot and killed and Lenor tries to help his family Hayitch jumps in and gets illegally volunteered by the game makers to take his place One is off to such a crazy start Yeah exactly I was really surprised by that Okay anyways we'll keep going We'll talk about that Keep coming and they don't stop coming Oh hey Mitch Okay Uh after watching his friend Luella get killed by an accidental stampede during the opening Hunger Game ceremony and get replaced by a capital hijacked doppelganger Hey Match Hey Mitch becomes part of an alliance called the newcomers which was put together in order to stand up against the careers who always win and to secretly quote unquote break the arena Two Two Mhm Hey Mitch manages to blow a hole in the water tank of the arena with the undercover help of Plutarch and Bey who are both seemingly working undercover as rebels It damages the arena but doesn't kill it So Hamitch is forced to watch his friends die including Bey's son while he battles to the death to ultimately become the victor You're making me cry right here It's only sentence three We got to get darker over here Okay Okay Uh because of all the trouble he caused in the arena President Snow has a vendetta against Hamage who comes home to District 12 only to find his mother and little brother burned to death in a houseire He finds solace I'm sorry I thought you were done Go ahead That was enough That was brutal enough Stop it Dash He finds solless in the fact that Lenor is still alive until he realizes the candy he bought her was swapped out with poison And he watches her eat them and be poisoned to death before he can stop it Oh this is so morbid So morbid Um which it's like we all knew I it wasn't going to go well We didn't know the details though We know horrible Uh Hay Mitch realizes the televised games were scrubbed of all of his and the others acts of rebellion and that he will never rest until he fulfills Lenor's request to never let another sunrise on Reaping Day So he drives away all of his friends and family including Katniss's parents Berdo and Astrid in order to keep them safe and years and years later eventually ends up living out his days in the Victor's village with Peta Katniss and their children where he tries to find some joy in life but never falls in love again or fully recovers Why you got to do that Just relived it all in that five sentence summary Yeah Okay It was rough It was rough What was I saying We were watching the movies They did it to me again Yeah Yeah Yeah That's what just happened As you reach as you reach for the tissues like every day Oh my gosh It's happening again Yeah This book it's like it I think that's what makes it so unique We know what happened before We know what happened after But being able to like it's like I was trying to explain that to my husband like very rarely do we get them the insight into what happened in the be in the middle Yeah You know what I mean In the interim like it's it was really unique in that way and I appreciated the pieces being put together It's like we obviously knew it was going to end in tragedy Like there's no other way that Hamitch's story could have ended otherwise he would have been a completely different character Yeah And we knew like a teeny tiny bit of his arena time His time is in his arena in the 50th quarter quell Like we know he threw an axe into the barrier We don't really know much else though and come to find out that was deliberate It's like all these years she's been holding on to that story That's like I love that in that she's been laying the groundwork Hey totally Hot take This is why it is okay for books to take years in between the next one Take your time authors Take your sweet old time No matter how much we want it it is okay to wait Yeah That's not a dig at anybody in particular And I've just I've been seeing a lot of you know Yeah Right No one in particular Um I've been hearing a lot of things kind of like floating around of pe that are people are posting obviously about Sunrise on the Rebean since it just came out And you know something that's been kind of floating around a lot is this idea that like quote unquote Suzanne Collins doesn't write anything unless she has something to say And um I hadn't really heard that before this you know but it makes sense It makes sense that I think that you know this was deliberate It was intentional You know she starts the book off with a George Orwell quote That's not a coincidence in any way shape or form And so yeah I think that that's really interesting and telling that she's like "No this is the right time This is the right time to tell this story." And I think that it Yeah it was perfect Yeah So okay why don't we just get into our favorite and least favorite parts of Sunrise on the Reaping Okay got my notes I'm curious I'm ready Okay I'm curious to hear what was your favorite part My favorite part of Sunrise on the Reaping was seeing the similarities between Hay Mitch and Katniss especially in that final like self-sacrificing moment where he tried to blow up the arena and off himself at the same time So it was this big final FU Mhm Yeah What about you What was your favorite part I think my favorite part I mean I had so many honestly it was really really hard for me to like narrow it down I think my favorite part was watching with what we know of snow from a ballot of songirds and snakes It was watching all of these pieces fall into place to show why snow is so crazy Yeah like like it's it's almost like not to sympathize with him because obviously he at this point he's gone full evil right It's like he's full evil Like we don't need to necessarily like empathize with his plot any longer if we don't want to But I think that what is really interesting is if every time you you know have an issue with District 12 you're seeing why why am I constantly seeing mocking Jay's Why do I have to listen to this freaking song that my long lost love wrote that now haunts me to the ends of time Like it's almost like I loved those parts because it was just showing like yeah I think anyone might go insane if they had to deal with that for like their whole entire life until they were old and eventually got killed You know what I mean It's like it just shows that it's been like the mocking J symbol has existed far before Katniss came along And then it's like the hanging tree symbolism too in the song It's like obviously that came from Lucy Gay And so it's like how could that not slowly just drive someone to madness like knowing all those things Yeah That he knows you know So those were the things that I liked the most Um specifically the moments where you're like "Oh no wonder Snow's mad." Yeah that would make sense Yeah Yeah Cuz in in Hunger Games it just feels like he has a weird vendetta specifically you know It's like huh but and now we know Or or he's mad just because he wants to you know squash any rebellion in general but it's like no he specifically has a videtta against District 12 for these reasons Yeah And I feel like this book really explained that and like pieced it together really well Yeah Yeah Yeah So what about your least your least favorite part Um would probably be I forget her name but the last final tribute along with Hey Mitch do you remember her name Um it started with an M She's one of the capital not capital One of the careers you know Well she Oh no no no no no I know who you're talking about Oh it's a different person Okay She cut off and is holding up Welly's head So um lady you've gone too far Okay Cuz I think it what it symbolizes is like and it's just it's it's one thing to have to be thrown into this arena and murder each other but it's another thing to like go that hard like make us skeptical of it on purpose Yeah It was so brutal And that was especially after he had dropped the chocolates down for her the night before So it was so sad It was so barbaric you know It was very It was very Lord of the Flies for sure Um I agree like that part like I remember reading the like she held up her head part and like literally out loud being like oh no like like out loud saying that like woke because I feel like as terrible as these books are they're not really like explicitly graphic Like we're not reading gory scenes We're not it's not about that And so I feel like there was two instances So that's interesting that you say that because that was one of the instances Then my least favorite part is was the other one that I'll talk about where I feel like it was a little bit on the gorier more barbaric side Yeah And um Yeah And I definitely like was appalled out loud Yeah I had to like reread it Like I went back the pages a couple times like wait did I am I am I reading the right book What Like Yeah Cuz a lot of times they're just you know Yeah Some of them want the glory and stuff but yeah it was just like whoa that lady she lost it She lost her mind Yeah Yep Yeah That's what it seemed like So then what was your least favorite scene other than that one Uh it was I'm horrible with names I swear it's so bad There was 48 tributes We'll give you a break here Oh but he was a main character So Bey's Bey's son Aert Aert Aert Okay amp when he literally got eaten down to a skeleton Yeah like a [ __ ] corn on the cob Listen we have to laugh or else we'll cry It's horrible On the cob I was horrified I was like "Oh my god." Cuz it just painted such a clear picture of what happened Like he literally got eaten by these mutations like to till he was nothing but bone To the bone Yeah Horrible Yeah It was horrible And Bey you know how to sit there and watch it Yeah Oh my god And you know it's like knowing what we know now also It's just Yeah Those are the full circle moments that I really appreciate when it's like we know Bey obviously from later on and it's like all the things that he had to go through before that point It's crazy to me Yeah Oh my gosh Good golly We'll never recover So what about characters Who's your like least in most Dude I wasn't expecting it but I loved Maisley Yeah she was a good character though Yeah she was sassy She's feisty funny Yeah held held true to herself the entire time I did like her and I didn't see that coming when I first read it And then of course like I feel like I can say it especially as someone who didn't particularly like Hitch in the books Obviously full redemption arc for me Completely find out the justification for him and his drinking and what happened to him Love him Poor dude It's horrible It's like you want to you want to be like "Oh well you know you shouldn't drink so much." But it's like when you have seen what you saw and went through what you did and everyone you around you is dead because of you essentially It's because of the capital So you know it's misdirected but still you know but I don't think it was it wasn't entirely misdirected It's like he knew that if he got close to anyone Snow would kill that person Yeah So he needed to be an insufferable Yep Yeah terrible guy who kept everyone as far away from him as possible Yep You know so yeah I mean my favorite character was Hitch I liked him in the original trilogy as well Um so I was curious to see if this book would make me like him more or less like how that would go you know And I feel like yeah I've always liked Hitch so I just really continued to uh like his character just I think we got to see the soft parts of him that are completely disappeared by the time we get to the trilogy except for those little glimmers of you know the moments that he has with Katniss where you can see that they kind of have that bond like that deeper bond Yeah Um and so I liked being able to learn more about you know that part of his personality Yeah Mhm Yeah And I really enjoyed that Suzanne was able to capture his tone in this book You don't feel like you're reading Katniss's book with Hey Mitch's story You feel like you're reading Hey Mitch's perspective It's perfect Yeah I completely agree The tone was completely different You get the silly like sarcastic remarks too Like so his personality is still in it even though it's preh horrific trauma Like you still see you know him on both sides Does that make sense His personality comes through on both sides of the trauma So that's something that she does so well And I think it's why some people start Ballot of Songbirds and feel really icky and gross because it has a totally different tone It's the tone of snow You know it is But I think it's like it's not told from his perspective necessarily all the time I think that like that because I was talking to someone about this and they said that they kind of struggled with it because you know obviously Hunger Games is told through Katniss's perspective Uh Sunrise on the Reaping is told through Hamitch's perspective but A ballot of Songbirds and Snakes is not entirely told from Snow's perspective It's more like like they're just telling the story of what's happening But I think that that's important because if it was told entirely from Snow's perspective it would not be accurate because I don't think that he would be able to understand and be self-aware enough to be like and today I fell a little bit more into madness You know what I mean It's like I don't think that it would have come across the same way So yeah I feel like the tones for like let's just say the Hunger Games trilogy let's call that one thing right are so different it doesn't feel like oh I'm just reading the same recycled thing over and over again you know totally so what about your least favorite character obviously Snow I mean I just I mean Draella or whatever however you say her name she's pretty awful too yeah she sucked I did not like her at all she's like mean effie yeah she make yeah people are saying she makes Effie look like a lap dog or something Like a cute little bunny It's true And then that terrible her husband that we find out they're married with the reptiles Like what a coop Magno or whatever his name is Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Those are the ones that stuck out to me What about you Yeah Same Like literally same I think that if I had to pick someone who wasn't Snow it would be Yeah Was it Drusilla Was that her name I think Yeah She to me I was I kept on wondering when Effie was going to come into the picture You know what I And I was like "When is Effie going to show up I'm really sick of this lady She's like so terrible." And I know that she like had to be that way you know like for it to make sense But at the same time and for someone like Effie to stand out because you know without like otherwise Effie wouldn't stand out as being kind if everyone else was just like nice all the time too you know So I feel like it was a good like juosition between those two characters essentially in almost a very similar if not the same role Yeah Um but yeah I really disliked her But yeah obviously Snow sucks too Like we're not supposed to like him He's just worse and worse every time we learn more about him The way he planted those candies and then Hitch feeds it to her Horrible I didn't I literally didn't see that coming I did not I knew he was going to like I figured hanging or something Not that that's okay but she surprised us She did I was like "Oh no That's horrible." So that's a horrible nightmare to have for the rest of your life Like you put it you grabbed it out of the bag and you did it essentially Mhm It's horrible Yeah So for that reason snow Yeah Yeah Right Yeah I mean you got to give it to him though The diabolical deaths thing though he's pretty good at it He's pretty good at thinking it up Yeah Um also I do have to give a shout out to Plutarch as being neither my favorite character nor my least favorite character ever in any of the books because he's so important And I think you know I was reading a really good article I'll share some snippets of it later um when we start talking about quotes and whatnot Um I think it was in like L magazine or somewhere random or whatever but it was good where they were talking about how this book is predominantly about propaganda and as one of the main dystopian themes And I would agree but I think that what's interesting is that arguably without the aid of someone like Plutarch most of the stuff would not be able to effectively happen as well for good or for bad Yeah And so I I even commented in the fable chat at one point like I can't really figure Plutarch out like is he like part of the resistance and the rebellion is he not like it kind of seems like he's wishy-washy but not really because usually he's on the right quote unquote side you know and so I really appreciate his character for that reason because I feel like at the end of the day like um you know someone from our book club I think it was Tara had commented about how he's just a straightup sociopath and that's why he's able to do his job so well and I was like yeah that makes sense to me it's like at the end of the day he's out for himself and it's like fun for him you know to like get away with this stuff cuz he does He's the only one that isn't tortured and isn't you know found out And he's really good at that He's really good at playing both sides So he might just be that character that's like I'm going to play both sides and either way I win by the way I hate myself So if the capital goes down I'm fine And if the rebels take over I'm fine Yep Exactly Like no matter what like and I I really appreciate that about his character because even as a reader we feel that way about him too right Like he just kind of goes with the flows but at the same time is uh tremendously responsible for creating a public opinion throughout like the whole series or at least as far back as the 50th Hunger Games We're finding out Yeah Yeah Crazy So and he's a heavens be and I was trying to remember and I forgot to look it up Who's Heavensby in Ballad of Songbirds He I think he was just a student at the university So it's like his son Okay Yeah I can't remember his name Hilarious I think he had like a weird name like that I think it was like hilarious Heavensby or something Um but I'm pretty sure he was just like a student at the academy too Yeah Okay Yeah Interesting All the connections All the connections Love it Love it So how Okay I have two parts of this question How did this book make you feel But then also I was thinking about this If this were to be the last Hunger Games right Miss Suzanne is done She's like I've said everything I need to say about this world I'm done Would you like how would you feel about that if you knew that there was like nothing more happening I mean I feel like we always feel like that there's nothing else coming down the pipeline You know we would if I mean I wasn't reading them as they came out but from what I understand I believe Valad of Songbirds came out in 2019 and that was some 12 years after the last Hunger Games trilogy Don't quote me on the dates but there was a large gap in between so people didn't even Not that long Not that long Not that long Well either way how did it make me feel so satisfied with those full circle moments Like I said it's like a puzzle piece like finishing the last puzzle piece Doom boom Um all the constant calculations I was having to do I felt like that meme with the guy with all the numbers around him Totally That's how I felt almost the whole time And obviously emotionally wrecked of course And then how do I feel if there wasn't more You know while I would like more of course as long as it is with necessity that I would like more Does that make sense I I would never just want a filler Like I said earlier take your time as long as you need to If you feel like you have more to say we'll read it But if not I'm I am satisfied But I'm a I am a obsessed fan at this point So I will read anything What about you Yeah So first I wanted to say so Mocking Jay was published in 2010 Okay So almost 10 years between let's say the original trilogy Well she was quoted of saying that she's done She's not doing Hunger Games anymore And then oh see I don't pay any attention about that I Well I looked at it because it was like interesting state of the world that we're in when she drops these both these two So it was about 2019 when that one came out And you know well look at the state of the world in 2019 Who is in charge And then well who's in charge here in 2025 So there we go Yeah Interesting Interesting But not political at all Oh yeah Totally Yeah Um I would say that this book in particular made me feel like a lot of the loose ends were tied up Yeah Not that the loose ends were bothering me before but just like whoa Like just like a mindblowing like whoa that's crazy Whoa that's crazy Like just kind of like putting all the pieces together learning more Like that's how this book made me feel like just really good about it Um obviously it made me feel sad and I don't know just as invested if not more in the characters because we now know a lot of their fate right And so it's even more difficult to read about them I think knowing how things turn out Um but yeah it made me feel emotional in a good way and resolved in a lot of good ways Yeah And I feel like you know if another thing in the Hunger Games franchise were to never come out again you know and no more books and no more movies after this one comes out um I think I would feel content Mhm Like it's contributed so much Yeah to popular culture and to literature and to dystopian fiction in general I feel like I would feel good about that But as you said if she decides to start releasing one every few years I also wouldn't be mad about it I feel like there's so many characters um that whose stories could be told Yeah In a compelling way Mhm For sure For sure My gosh So I mean that leads us to the unanswered questions we want to know more about Was there anything after you were done with this where you were like"Dang like it would have been really cool if we would have found more out about X Y or Z or if there was anything that just kind of is haunting you still?" No Um no I do already want to reread it again And like I want somebody to like make a family tree That'd be really helpful A lineage dates how old everybody is cuz I have a hard time with that But I was doing math constantly I was like "Wait okay." Yeah cuz I have to figure it out Yeah So otherwise nothing particularly for me unanswered Uh what about you Anything that bothers you Yeah I mean the only thing I think that will haunt me um is the fact that you know Hey Mitch looks at uh Lucy Gay Beard's grave Yeah We don't know if that means they just gave her a grave and they never found her We don't really know what that means Um I'm assuming that means she just disappeared and no one ever knew what became of her Yeah Um I would also like to know how Lenor is related to Lucy Gay if they are related Yes Yeah So I have some stuff in the Easter eggs to talk about with all of that for sure Mhm Cuz Oh my gosh Yeah Those are the unanswered questions that like those are the types of things that'll like keep me up at night Like as far as like I'll just like pop out of bed one morning in the morning and just be like "Ah but what happened to Lucy Gray?" You know what I mean Like those are the things that bug me But like it's not it doesn't make me dislike the book It's just things I wish that we knew but I understand that it's either intentional because maybe we'll find out later or maybe in the grand scheme of the story it's not really important Yeah Mhm Okay Well with that said I will ask you this Okay If she comes out with another book do you have any predictions on whose story it will be Interesting I mean predictions on what would logically make sense or whose story I would want to read Give us both We got time I mean I feel like from a logical perspective it would make more sense to tell the story of a character that we already know right Like like Finnick or you know um Joanna Mason or like those characters that we really really grew to love and don't know much about their backstory Yeah Um if it were up to me I would want to know I would want to read Katniss's kids story Oh yeah interesting bec because I would be curious to find out what happens like how that societyy's operating basically Yeah How that societyy's operating Are there pitfalls Do they go back in any way shape or form Probably How does that play out What do the people of that you know generation know of the past You know how do they handle it Are they educated about it Do they choose to try to ignore it like how does media work in this new society Like those are the questions that I would have That'd be great Yeah I I have a prediction Obviously everybody wants Finick's story I feel like as brutal as it would be you know I wouldn't be surprised if we got that Um but I also feel like EI's story it would be a possibility because you know there's a lot of speculation going on right now in the book community that she actually is in the Price family which if you know anything about the Price family from Ballad of Songbirds it is a family that cannibalized their deceased maid and were ostracized but still able to be within the society right Cuz their family was so hungry I think it was the dad that you know cooked her up and nobody knew and then they found out after So there's a bit of a scarlet letter on her So she wasn't one of them that you know had to eat it but she'd be a descendant of them And well we also know because of this book Sunrays on the Reaping that she had rebel sympathizers in her family Yeah rebel sympathizers But also the family had weird blood stains on their clothes So I don't know There's just so much speculation going on with that I could be way off here but um you know and then she's also put in District 12 and she's still in District 12 when we see her with Katniss you know and that's a that's a what's it called It's a bit of a snub in that community to get that Totally So 25 years later and she's still working We don't know her We don't know her story though We don't know And then also um I want my unanswered question is still Tigris Dang it Oh that's true I forgot about Tigris Yeah we do see a snippet of her I believe But that was that was not enough It was a crumb but a crumb of her Yeah it was like the lady in the audience with the cat ears or whatever Yeah Was that Tigris or was it not We don't really know But I feel like that would be a good way So that's that's also what I want I just want Tigris's story But yeah um you know if they if she was able to do Effie maybe working with her with Tigris you know somehow and then the falling out I that's just what I want but I think when it comes to if you know circle back to will she bring us another one as long as there is a looming threat to a tyrannical government Suzanne will keep blessing us with these little drops of books you know yeah I mean I think another like interesting kind of like thing to think about too is that we obviously understand at this point is that we're only seeing what like we're only seeing a small little portion of what's going on We're seeing what obviously the author wants us to see but we're seeing it you know if through a specific character's eyes and perception Then there's also the fact that like media is being controlled So we're like those characters whose pers perspective we're seeing the story through are also only being exposed to a tiny bit of like what's actually happening in reality Whether it's because they can't afford a TV or because Plutarch is literally creating a completely different narrative or because Snow is censoring media whatever it is So it's like you have to think like there's 12 districts and then the capital It would almost be really interesting to get like a partner novel of what is happening in other districts when the same events are happening in district 12 Yeah Because I there for all we know some crazy like stuff is also happening there Like cuz as we've seen with these prequels like acts of rebellion have been happening forever since the war since before the war So what do we just not know Yeah for sure Yeah it's crazy So do you have any notable quotes that you wanted to share with the group Yeah I was reading live for most of them so I didn't write any down except this one that I had a moment to jot down A terrible dark grief begins to well up inside me threatening to drown me but I force it back down Swallow the same as uh clamp a lid on it damn it up They will not use my tears for their entertainment So that that says so much in that quote obviously disassociating bottle it up for later um and then not using your tears like not giving them the satisfaction But there's a subset of people right now that are upset with Miss Suzanne and the way they felt like the deaths in this book were breezed over and major moments like the water tank explosion I personally though believe that that's completely intentional with her writing I think I think of Finick's death how we the reader feel like oh what Katniss she can't she even says she she doesn't have time to process that she has to keep going And I think that is constantly having happening to Hay Mitch You know where like in Kadis's first story it's a little bit of a slower game You know there's she's dealing with the deaths as they come a little bit where Hitch had a target on his back from the get-go because of what was going on with Snow and the because of the chariot ride and him delivering Lulu's body Um so he was never afforded the luxury of grieving any of these deaths any of them And it continues on So I feel like you the reader feeling robbed of that grieving moment to like let me have a second here to cry about this You're not supposed to you're supposed to be mad about that You're you know what I mean Like you're or like that's probably what happens Like you don't have a chance to mourn that death you just saw You have to protect yourself You got to move on to the next So if you feel that I feel like congratulations That was intentional That's just my hot take I guess But no I would agree I think that you know like she would use that Yeah intentionally as a literary device Like I believe that to be true I agree with you for sure And it's horrible and it sucks but it's just the way that they have to operate Mhm What about you Any notable quotes I just have to show this for anyone watching the YouTube video Yeah anybody that look tab tab tab tab Um so yeah I have about a zillion quotes I actually just posted all of my favorite quotes over on Instagram yesterday Um but one that really really stuck out to me otherwise we'd be here literally all day Okay Um okay So let's see here Oh it's the end of the book You're going to make me cry again Great Let's see So he's talking to Plutarch and I'll just start here so that it has some context U you know so Hitch says "Me?" I say in disbelief "I am living proof that the capital always wins I tried to keep that sum from rising on another raping day I tried to change things and now everybody's dead You don't want me and I don't want him I don't want help from anybody in the capital ever again I could never trust them." and he responds with "We do want you You shook up the capital both figuratively and literally with that earthquake You were capable of imagining a different future And maybe it won't be realized today Maybe not in our lifetime Maybe it will take generations We're all part of a continuum Does that make it pointless?" That's beautiful Yeah And I thought that that like to tie it back into what I said before was really driving that point home to me that it's like that's why this story unlike a lot of other stories is being told over the course of we'll just say almost a hundred years if you take into account the wartime and everything Yeah because it's I think it's the author's way of really explaining that's like these what you might perceive quote unquote is a small act of rebellion or resistance a drop in the bucket compared to what really needs to happen you know because of the things that Hitch did because of let's say the things that Tigris did because of the things that Plutarch did even if he is a sociopath like it took like all of these people over the course of a hundred years doing tiny little things The CVY singing songs and keeping um you know art alive and you know uh communicating messages through music like whatever you want to call that like that that's the only reason why it was possible for Katniss to be able to eventually take down you know put the final arrow in it if you want to put it that way You know what I mean It's like that's the only reason why she was able to stand there and do that Yeah Yeah So it's not for nothing Yeah If you want to just go over any dystopian themes and then we can get into the Easter eggs part There's a lot you have You know we talked about propaganda You mentioned that off total control government The eye is always watching The symbolism of the eye shape in the arena was crazy Technology Yeah Handmaid's tail Yep And Great Gatsby and um 1984 like so many so many things A technology used for evil you know all the all the tropes All the dystopian tropes What about you Any other things you noticed Um just about like dystopian themes No I feel like you pretty much like covered it I feel like I would agree with the assessment that this was a good example of how from Hamish's perspective and therefore from our perspective as the reader we're reading this is like wow like this is there's all these acts of rebellion happening throughout the whole book so many like these kids are banding together to take out the careers you know they're working with other people undercover to try to like explode the arena Like they're doing all of these things and then it's completely erased It's completely erased from public perception from history from you know common knowledge altogether Yeah So then you have to grapple with the idea of like well then you know and I think that's what Hitch was saying in that quote that I shared Was it for nothing then Like they still won No one knows what I did Yeah Really like no one knows what we did Um you know but no I I would argue no it's not for nothing But I feel like yeah the main dystopian theme from this in my opinion would definitely be the use of propaganda to alter history and public perception Yeah I mean we know from these little snippets that Bey had some form of active rebellion cuz he's being punished with his son So his games essentially were cut out too That's my theory Mags something with Mags you know she was being punished as well Um and they were punishing uh Wyus for outsmarting the arena making them look stupid So they punish all these people and all of these little acts of rebellion that we see and multiple multiple Yeah generations and time until Katniss comes along and is finally able to break it And I think a big part of why Katniss was able to get through they weren't able to censor her as easily Her um going in her sister's place volunteering as tribute was like a huge moment they couldn't censor out you know Mhm And that got the capital people thinking too you know So I don't know Well I think like it goes all the way back to you know Snow disappearing 99% of footage of Lucy Gay winning the games Yeah Right there You know what I mean It's like that's huge right there Um and that was mainly erased Yeah Crazy Yeah So crazy All right I do have a surprise question but we'll wait till after the Easter eggs because it's light-hearted and goofy and silly So okay Great a good way to sign off on it Yeah we'll keep it depressing for a little while No not depressing but like Easter eggs Let's just bounce back and forth I guess on what we've noticed really quickly We're not going to deep dive too far into here guys but just a couple mentions we wanted to say Obviously Lucy Gray Bear Braid Bear I don't know how to say it and her relations um and her relatives Was that her tombstone Hamitch read in the end Was it because they discovered her body after Snow was shooting into the woods Was it after she lived a long life in the cabin by herself I don't think so I was thinking does she have a child in District 12 And I was thinking I don't think that's possible I don't think she could have possibly lived amongst District 12 people without Snow coming in and taking her out He would have found out He He had eyes everywhere He is He is the allseeing eye So I think that that is either her tombstone after they discovered her body or she went missing Yeah Or she died more hidden You know maybe she stayed at the cabin for a little while you know I mean my assumption and this is not who knows if it's right or not is my assumption would be that she ran away Yeah You know went somewhere where she found more members of the CVY and just kind of like you know went off under the radar for the rest of her days but that her family probably created that I think it was her headstone They created that headstone intentionally just to honor her you know assuming that you know like we don't know what happened to her Maybe she did die People do that all the time You know what I mean Like uh we have funerals for people who have gone missing all the time U so I think that's what I personally would think had happened But there definitely is speculation that um God I feel like I read it somewhere that Lucy Grey Bear did come back to 12 and um that she actually was Lenor's mother Mhm But she died in childbirth because Lenor's mother died in child birth So yeah there's all that speculation too I don't necessarily believe that I think it's probably more likely that she went off into the woods and then you know migrated somewhere else and then they probably just put that there to honor her Yeah Yeah Yeah But I did like those all the parallels with the cubby I thought that was really really good Yeah Having all those tie-ins was really cool And that was like the math Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Yep Mhm Totally Um I put the music I love how the music ties all three parts of the series together Yeah Um you know knowing you know after watching The Hunger Games now knowing that Lucy Greybar wrote The Hanging Tree obviously about events we read about in a ballot of song Birds and Snakes Um and then you know having having those songs run through all of the books for 75 years of time and you know that they existed even before that is really fascinating to me Yeah Yeah So I really appreciated that Mhm Yeah Okay Katniss's parents and their budding relationship Um not only that but um Berdo which is Hitch's best friend Katniss's dad His dad Imagine So he loses his dad in she loses his dad in the mind explosion which now I'm speculating on right Cuz he is in the CVY and he's a song bird and he is the one that's teaching Katniss these songs and is a great singer So he's like one of the last of the CVY I think in Katniss's time when she's there Okay So I personally think that maybe the mind explosion was that last poof dissolvation dissolving Well I think I commented something in the fable chat about this I didn't realize like obviously I knew that a lot of the CVY didn't have parents anymore right I figured they were you know murdered in some way or Yeah died in the mines or like died when they were rounding them all up to you know put them in District 12 I did not realize that it was a systematic extermination of the adult members I did not realize that And so I feel like that was a piece that I appreciated from this book because it was getting rid of essentially all of the adults Yeah Which as I was thinking about that coming off of Ballad of Songbirds I was just like well what happened to that Like how did you know cuz we don't see them in the Hunger Games that we knew of you know like what how do you take this band of people Well you slowly one by one tick tick tick crazy Mhm So that would be horrible So imagine yeah you lose your best friend that you had to push away because you didn't want him to die because of you He dies anyways and now he's has this daughter and then that daughter gets pulled in the reaping and you have to mentor her and coach her and hope that she doesn't die also It's just like ripping that band-aid and pouring the salt in the wound every time So much I know Horrible Yeah So the next one that I really found fascinating was the Mocking Jay symbolism that just ran all the way through with the Flint Striker with the Mocking Jay pen Um you know knowing where the Mocking J pen came from Yeah that was pretty freaking cool for sure I really appreciated all of that symbolism too Yeah Yeah having seeing the moment the twin got pulled for the reaping Um and then like having them rip them apart too like they mentioned something seeing the twins get ripped apart It was so crazy And then now and then she right So she has the twin that stays in the district ends up getting these horrible headaches for the rest of her life And we see that tie in in the mocking Jay or Catching Fire Sorry I believe it's catching fire where she gives the morphing to Gail Yeah Mhm You know so it's just like all those tie-ins coming through It's crazy I just put Mags and Wyus being Hamish's mentors Yeah that was crazy That was crazy It was also really interesting to see how Mags ended up in a wheelchair and Irus ended up with like severe mental trauma we'll just call it because we don't really know the extent of it after this specific Hunger Games So Wyus was not always like that We don't really know too much about you know how bad Mags's injuries were um if they were sustained or whatnot Um but that was an interesting tiein too Yeah it was you know Yeah And of course we see Bey and the fact that his son's uh he has to mentor his son in the Hunger Games Yeah That was that was personal Okay It's horrible And then we talked about uh Tigris We get a little crumb We get a crumb of her in the audience with the cat ears It's not I said I was going to scream if we didn't get her story Okay Yeah Yeah And then that's all that I put I put you know the tie-ins with blue tark the tie-ins with Effie like basically just seeing like Yeah where these characters came from what they were doing in the meantime Like I really appreciated all those tieins for sure That was great It was beautifully done It was a perfect tie-in book to everything Yeah Wrapped it up in a a horrific little bow filled with spiders Okay So real quick before you share that um that article that I was telling you guys about that I had read in L magazine there was a section in this article where they talked about the use of propaganda in this book specifically And I thought that this summed it up really well because there's obviously you know Suzanne Collins is using songs in this one She's using um you know poems poetry to uh I think just emphasize like that idea that you know hey Mitch is slowly going to is slowly driving himself insane because of his lost love Okay So um the quote is but while propaganda is indeed a form of storytelling there is a chasm of difference between twisting stories with malicious intent and preserving them for posterity Colin's use of the raven in addition to numerous other songs and poems popular amongst the CVY is a testament to that fact that a poem from 1845 would exist in its entirety numerous centuries in the future having survived the collapse of northern American society and the building of a totalitarian government bent on killing children is something of a wondrous idea to behold It is also a nod to the strength and resilience of the covet themselves who have taken care to maintain these stories despite the capital's relentless and wellocumented censorship And so I really appreciated that idea too because it just it really explained I think one of the big reasons why Suzanne Collins is using things like the Raven throughout or like different songs throughout Yeah Yeah Yeah Mhm Okay So anyways but hey also you know what You know what Hey But took me too long to realize Okay so the cvy was named they would name their children originally after a color and what was it A bird A poem or a song A poem or a song Okay Poem or song And then I just find it interesting that Berdo named his children Katniss and Primrose So I don't know what to do with that information but something's there Something feels there I don't know Yeah Like both named after plants Yeah So now I need to I need to see a full list of everybody Well maybe that was kind of like the maybe that was the changing of generations You know what I mean Like that blossoming you know something new rebellion blossoming I don't know I think it could be a good and bad symbolism Like obviously a good symbolism like what you're saying like something new is growing But then I think it could also be a bad symbolism because of the fact that like the parts of the CVY that were yeah specific to them were being systematically um snuffed out over generations of time Although I don't know how um like how participatory in the CVY Berdo was or if he was just kind of like a like a friend to them and like enjoyed singing but wasn't necessarily part of their like nomadic life or like a child of one of the Cubby members You know what I mean Yeah Yeah I don't know But it's all speculation when it comes to that But anyways last thing Mhm Get my conspiracy board out Let's go I know right Truly surprise question to lighten the mood to leave you guys on a high note Here we go Okay going back to the arena Okay you're in the arena What items would you try to snatch up from the cornucopia to help you in the arena Well I don't know I feel like uh the like Hamage did this and Katniss did this I feel like the smartest thing you can do is try to just run as fast as you can and grab the backpacks Yeah 100% agree Yeah because it seems like you know they always have some vital things that you need in there Um and then you're not mixing yourself up in the blood bath kind of situation Yeah You know and everybody loves a good mystery bag So hey mystery bag I was like so happy for him when he got like all these good stuff And as soon as he opened the me personally as soon as he opened the like you know black charcoal packs I was like "Oh no everything's probably poison there." Especially cuz everything looks so like idealic Yeah Well I think I remember them mentioning something about that So someone see now I want to reread the whole entire series again even though I just finished because of more Easter eggs and finding more things Someone had mentioned when they were explaining I think to Katniss or I mean Katniss either way It might have been the first arena or the second arena she went into that sometimes they're mentioning all the different types of arenas they have Sometimes the arena is so beautiful and everything is so perfect but everything's out to kill you and everything's poison and it's like that was Hitch's arena Oh I do want to say one more thing that I didn't mention before I really appreciated the repetitive use of Katniss Like just seeing it in this book you know what I mean Like the actual plant itself Like that was really cool I appreciated that I can't remember I'd have to look through all of my million tabs but there was a point in time where someone described someone else as having pearly white bones And that's exactly how Lucy Grey Beard describes like the only thing that still exists of my mothers are pearly white bones Yeah And I was like that's interesting And then obviously Hay Mitch's use of um you know the term sweetheart like we found out where that came from Yeah I feel like I really just I haven't Yeah Reading that cuz he calls um he calls Luella sweetheart right He's like she's sweetheart but she's not sweetheart like my love is You know his Lenor sister sweetheart It's like yeah she was my first sweetheart we have this kindred bond that is unspoken and understood that is not in a love interest type of way It's a different type of thing So I thought that was really sweet Yeah it was a sweet moment and then it all went downhill again Cry cry cry everywhere Well I think that about wraps it up That's crazy I cannot believe that this whole series is done already That's crazy For now I'm going to miss it I know for now but we still got one more episode So tune in next week you guys because we're doing our final wrap up where we talk about our ranking favorite to least favorite books movies everything in between We're going to talk about that digest all of that So make sure notifications are turned on and you are subscribed and following at Besties in the Books podcast anywhere you like to listen to your favorite podcast including YouTube You can also check us out over on Instagram and Tik Tok at besties in the Books Podcast But you guys we'll see you next Tuesday Tuesday and one more Friday for this minieries Okay bye bye