Ep 67 Spark of the Everflame Review, Summary, and Deep Dive | Kindred’s Curse Saga Book 1

"In this episode of Besties in the Books, hosts Liz and Ashley dive into Spark of the Everflame by Penn Cole, the first book in the Kindred Curse Saga. As a fresh romantasy read from a New York Times bestselling debut author, this novel blends strong female leads, a compelling magic system, and light feminist themes that set it apart in the fantasy genre. The hosts share a spoiler-free review, their personal star and spice ratings, and discuss Penn Cole’s thoughtful character development, world building, and tropes like hidden identity and slow burn romance. They also highlight their exclusive spoiler-free interview with Penn Cole—linked below—along with community reactions on their Fable book club and good reads. Perfect for romantasy lovers and fantasy newcomers alike, this deep-dive episode offers layered insight, trope breakdowns, and fun personal updates, all while celebrating one of the genre’s most talked-about series."

We’re finally here to do our deep dive series on Penn Cole’s amazing debut Spark of the Everflame! Book 1 in the Kindred’s Curse Saga is a fantastic start to an epic slow burn Romantasy series, but is also an examination of the effects of colonialism, classism, racism, and sexism (among other examples of inequality) on a fictional world, and we’re here to talk about it!

We had the pleasure of interviewing Penn Cole about her thoughts on these topics, on strong female characters and the men that support them, and why these stories about unlikely heroines fighting for justice resonate so much with us. So make sure to check that episode out and then dive right into our talk about book one.

We have spoiler free reviews, our spice rating, our five sentence summary of the entire plot, and then all of our likes and dislikes. What tropes did we enjoy? Plot points? Does this book deserve all the hype? And most importantly… what are the feminist themes? And are we excited to keep going?

Stick around to find out, to hear all about our faves and fails TV / ½ Marathon edition, and a smash or pass with America’s favorite sweetheart and a hell demon.

Don't be shy, subscribe! New Podcasts every Tuesday!! (And sometimes Friday!…)

Check out these author interviews? ⬇️
Penn Cole talks with us about Strong Female Characters, Feminist Themes, and her debut bestselling Spark of the Everflame Series! https://youtu.be/7ukNImyoObw?si=7C3Y9kOUMN4hfcKb

We interviewed Callie Hart all about her NYT Bestseller Quicksilver! Watch it here! https://youtu.be/CED5s7qDBdQ?si=8xtIRO1IzX6Rsld4

Check the official Author Interview with Lindsay Straube of Split or Swallow! Now a Barnes & Noble & Amazon best seller titled: Kiss of the Basilisk!  https://youtu.be/fknhocSNIKM

Need more ACOTAR in your life? Cook your way through Velaris with the help of Chelsea Cole and her cookbook A Feast of Thorns & Roses. Check out our author interview here! https://youtu.be/fjzmqd-x3OA?si=kN

The Write Note
Exploring the craft of writing and its impact on pop culture.

Listen on:   Spotify

YouTube | TikTok | Instagram | Podcast Platforms
@BestiesandtheBooksPodcast

Besties and the Book Club on Fable!
https://fable.co/bestiesandthebookclub-474863489358

Liz
Instagram | TikTok
@TheRealLifeVeganWife

Ashley
Instagram | TikTok
@AshleyEllix

Chapters

• 0:00 Spoiler Free Intro
• 5:46 Fav and Fails of the Week
• 9:37 [Ad] The Write Note
• 10:25 (Cont.) Fav and Fails of the Week
• 15:47 Spark of the Everflame Book Review and Rating
• 19:57 5 Sentence Summary
• 22:52 Favorites and Least Favorites
• 55:37 Predictions and Theories for Book 2 and Book 3
• 58:15 GoodReads Book Reviews
• 1:05:07 Unhinged Smash or Pass

Transcript

0:00

spark of Ever Triangle today she actually wrote book two first and then went back oh I love a good old person with a crazy vision rain in this like feral creature in his kingdom[Music] welcome to the Besties in the Books podcast guys i'm Liz and I'm Ashley and today we are going to be delving into the first book in the new series that we're covering so book one of the Kindred Curse Saga Spark of the Everflame by Pen Cole aka New York Times best-selling debut author of the series who we actually got to interview recently so of course that was such an exciting opportunity we met her at the Romanty BookCon and like instantly it was just such a vibe she was so sweet so nice so we reached out to them and got that set up so that way we could have that for you guys of course we will link that interview down in the description box so you guys could check that out too that one is a spoiler-free interview so if you want to find out all about the books and you don't want to get spoiled there you go yeah find out if you want to read them find out more about Pen Cole her behind the scenes i mean she's just a really fascinating person I think and yeah we were just so happy that we were able to interview her um specifically you know we heard her a lot uh talk a lot about strong female characters and kind of more um like feminist themes in books at Romanty BookCon and so that's kind of what we want to talk about when we are delving into this um you know Spark of the Everflame series um how it kind of sets itself apart a little bit within the romanty genre for sure well I think sometimes knowing authors are intentional with th those themes like surprisingly refreshing you know sometimes I think that we or we as readers are set apart like we don't like know how deep it goes so to hear her talk on those panels we were totally inspired we're like Liz shoved the like notebook she was writing in she's like put her on the podcast i'm like yes definitely yeah cuz we just knew she'd be such a good fit for you guys for us to talk to just to get to know her and behind the scenes a little bit more and all those themes that she incorporated into this series so we're deep diving it guys we are deep diving all these books we're so excited um if you guys aren't following along on Fable at Besties in the Book Club we do have a Fable chat for book one so the book we're covering today Spark the Everflame and actually for book two Glow of the Everflame because you guys voted it twice in a row as book club book um so yeah you know if you want to go over there and see our chapter by chapter you know little commentaries chitchat amongst yourselves about things everything's spoiler-free over there on Fable because you only read the chapter that you know you're clicking on and so feel free to go in there and make your comments um and then also you know by the time this video goes up we will have a live covering books one and two that you guys can go interact with and watch over on Instagram and that will actually cover both books one and two as well and it'll be a different format than these deep deep dive episodes so you'll be getting completely different stuff out of that if you just if you need more Spark of the Everflame content because it's the series is so good feel free to go over there and check that out too it's kind of like the series I've noticed like everybody's talking about right now so everybody's and everybody's reading and everybody's loving so that way you get that fix hopefully you know we can bring that to you guys all the talk all the things and we're dropping the other books every other week so make sure you're liking and subscribing so you get notified cuz we're doing the other books too exciting i am loving this journey 100 million% um and you know today we're going to be doing our reaction style deep dive video um but we are going to have specific questions where we kind of address um you know what sets the main characters apart what kind of feminist themes we can find in um Spark of the Everflame and why we think those are important um we'll go over you know our favorite characters least favorite our favorite tropes etc um which you've come to expect at this point but we're going to dive a little bit deeper with some other like I said specifics um so that if that sounds good to you stick around keep in mind that the first 15 minutes or so will as usual be spoiler-free though so if you want to just hear our basic star and spice reviews to see if you want to proceed we will give you the heads up once we get into spoiler section but before we get into that we just want to say thank you so much for being here yes thank you guys so much for being here and taking time out of your day and your book to tune on into us and hear what we have to say about Spark of the Everflame and any other topics that we bring to you guys every Tuesday make sure to like follow and subscribe anywhere you like to listen to your favorite podcast including YouTube and you guys you can now comment along on Spotify so cool so you can let us know right now if you're listening on Spotify and you're not driving like "Hey this is what I thought of this book." You know whatever it may have you and of course you can always comment down on YouTube and if you guys give us a little thumbs up that helps our channel out a lot if you are able to do that if you're ever able to leave us a review where you listen to your podcasts we read those periodically and it just means so much to us yeah we're besties in the Books podcast everywhere and Fable we're at Besties and the Book Club over on that app yes so let's just kick this off with a fave and fail of the week shall we just of the week we shall it's the regular old week what have you been regular old weeky week okay so my fave this week is that my husband and I finally started The Last of Us oh like season one season one okay yeah i had a lot of people DM me cuz I posted it like "But season one like you're starting at the beginning." Like well yeah I'm way behind so but obvious not too bad cuz there's only nine episodes in the first season so we're already at I think we finished episode 5 yesterday so it's uh I do like it i like zombie stuff so I went in completely blind and I got to say I already know a big spoiler for season 2 and I'm still going to watch it anyways like before I even started you know because people were posting all over about it but I was like hey you know what oh well whatever so I do like the video games but I could see how freaking stressful that video game would be cuz it's very like we're tense the whole time so yeah i'm not I can't explain it but I'm not obsessed with it but I want to watch it does that make sense i'm not like cuz Walking Dead I was obsessed with before it got really boring and monotonous um and it's also really gross have you ever watched it no I never watch Wait are you talking about Walking Dead or The Last of Us no The Last of Us um I did watch all of season one yeah me and my husband watched season one um I didn't really like it so yeah I could continue like if he watches it I might fade in and out you know i might like read my book and like pay attention occasionally um but I don't really care this is my marker if I get to the end of a season of a show and I like don't It's like the same with a book if I don't care what happens to these characters then I'm kind of like me I could take it or leave it and I actually looked up the spoiler for season 2 because I saw all these like people freaking out about what happens in season 2 episode 2 and I was like I'm just going to spoil it for myself and that still didn't really compel me to continue watching and so if like I said if my husband watches it cool if not whatever like I just wasn't sucked in by it so I don't know it wasn't bad but I just wasn't sucked in like we're enjoying it but I wouldn't if we couldn't binge it um good luck i would forget about it so I'm a little nervous because season 3 season 2 right now only has three episodes and I'm like how often are they dropping and how many are they dropping at a time probably a week like you're going to lose us basically because I I'm enjoying it i like the ride it's a little gross but I'm interested but also I probably don't care either yeah yeah so it's a weird head space to be in but it's something for us to do as a couple so hey yeah no that's good we're watching The Righteous Gemstones right now oh yeah we got See we got to go back to that and so we keep saying that every time we go to sit down but we weren't like in the mood for something funny he wasn't feeling great it was all rainy outside i'm like "Let's watch something super depressing sounds good let's go." So Last of It Last of Us It was yeah i mean I think you guys were the ones that told me to watch that show originally and it's so freaking good and I feel like it just gets more and more unhinged like we're all the way caught up at this point and I'm just like I love this show it's so funny yeah at this point Jeff said the other day he's like we just have to restart and I'm like you're right oh darn let's restart it you know but you just have to be in the certain zones for certain things so and that's like non-stop laughter which is great but he needs to feel better to do that so yeah at this point cuz now I remember we started we tried to pick up on one of the seasons and we're like wait I don't remember any of this and I'm like well I watched it so we don't even know where we are anymore okay so we'll just have to restart it it's a good one and then my fail we'll just keep on the show theme why not is that I haven't watched Severance season 2 yet so and that's not even my fault that's my husband's fault because I told him he needs to watch the first one cuz it's so good none of you guys are listening to me Liz um but I also understand now I think I don't think he'll respect it so I don't want him to watch it so now I'm just going to watch season two because it's very slow i get it you know you have to be like in the right zone you got to be in that space and he's uh more of a surface level watcher for him like not a deep thinker i don't that sounds bad he likes more of like a entertaining like fast-paced show that's probably what I mean yeah yeah he also It's not fast-paced it's not and it but it's hard for him it is like I have to constantly like reel them back in you know so he likes the action parts of the shows but the there's like been a couple episodes already that are really like slow and so it pulls him out so I don't think he'll last for Severance like watching him watch this I'm like never mind I'll just watch Severance by myself so I need to watch season two well you know you told me to watch The Rightous Gemstones i'm all the way calling on that okay i don't watch very much TV so it takes me forever um my sister wants me to watch this other show with um freaking James Marsden that she says is really good you're telling me to watch Severance i'm like but you have to be in the right zone for it you know that's like a stormy weather binging show yeah I think yeah and then we're watching the new season of The Handmaid's Tale right now so it's like there's just a lot i'm I could only watch so much TV no you're good you're good you're good but if you like dystopian you know shows with that dark vibe yeah it's good it's crazy it It does ramp up at the end of season one i don't know i haven't watched season two yet so you know I don't know but everybody says it's great i need to do it what about you faves and fails my fave of the week was finishing my half marathon yesterday yeah congratulations yeah it's finally done yeah me too good for you it's finally done it's the second one that I have done i did my last one back in 2019 i actually ended up beating my time i was not trying and in fact I forgot my Apple Watch at home so I was not paying attention to my pace at all because I literally had no device on which to do so um so uh yeah I was raw dogging running you weren't listening to anything i had my phone i had my phone oh okay okay yeah it's like I could never the only way I get on the treadmill is because I have something to entertain me oh yeah no way i definitely had my phone i was listening to music for sure i made like a little playlist on the way down there for it or whatever um but I couldn't keep track of like my pace per mile because I was like literally just running you know so but I still beat my last time by 2 minutes so that was really cool yay yeah um Yeah and it's done and over now so I can move on with my life yeah yeah um and so yeah that was one of my faves my other one this is an honorable mention um well it was fun just getting to hang out with my husband yesterday cuz he ran the full marathon i ran the half and then we freaking went to Applebee's afterwards and got burgers and fries cuz it's like what else are you going to do um and then we went back home and I kind of like read for a while and he watched TV and then we ended up watching one of the like old Batman's like the one with Arnold Schwarzenegger in it like so corny it was so funny um and we tried the new S'mores Oreos and they're so freaking good s'morios yes literally that's what they're called they're so good um so those are all my faves of the week is like literally just yesterday was like a whole fun day go get the s'mores Oreos they're so good um and then my fail of the week not sponsored but we sure wish it was yeah my gosh that would be so amazing um my Oreo if you're listening it's me Margaret um you know I don't really have a fail of the week like when I was thinking about it I was like all I did was like work and then run this run and like do podcast stuff like I don't really have a fail of the week um aside from the fact that I feel like everything has just been really crazy lately so I've been feeling very like frantic but now that I'm not having to like train for this run and do long runs and stuff it'll free up a lot of my time cuz my workouts will go back to an hour a day you know um so a lot more manageable which is great um and yeah I just have a lot to do before the next time that we go out of town so that's my only and it's not even really a fail like I'm glad we get to go out of town and stuff but it's just lots of things happening all the time I feel like and I'm like okay I need to take a breath a little bit definitely but that's it i didn't have any like notable things that really stood out so that's a good thing no news is good news it is a win there you go okay so why don't we just get into our spoiler-free uh reviews star rating and spice rating for Spark of the Everflame book one in the Kindred's Curse Saga by Pen Cole sounds good let's go uh I rated Spark of the Everflame four stars it was like a fully enjoyable romanticy story with a very compelling world and magic system built in that was also very easy to understand mhm making it very accessible I think to people of all different kind of like reading styles and backgrounds so that's why I rated it four stars um and at this point yeah the spice in this book would be like a one spice like very very mild very mild quick yeah so like it's there but it's not like it doesn't go into detail it doesn't go into detail it's not closed door fully but it's also not like a whole big long saga either mhm definitely what about you yeah liz and I were talking about this cuz it's hard i'm trying to abide by my own star rating system and my own rules because there's nothing wrong with this book there's nothing wrong with it it's just on my scale rating for stars a five is usually something that I'm constantly going to be thinking about or is lifechanging okay so I'm going to say it with that so for me this book one isn't quite that there's a lot of potential and I'm excited to keep going though so for right now it's four stars and with that said Acatar the first book is a four stars but look at where it got us and I love it you know so it's not that it won't be it's that that's where I'm at right now so I feel I'm like all guilty feeling but it's just cuz it's like there it's hard because there's nothing there's nothing wrong with it it's a great book but it's not um I guess it doesn't hit the five star uh life-changing feeling yet i would but it has all of the it's laying all the groundwork it has all of the markers of that's where it's going and also that's with the lens of a 30some year old so for me I was also telling Liz like right now for book one it feels like yeah a more introductory into fantasy so I would definitely recommend it for people that feel maybe too overwhelmed with some world building this one is very easy to understand you're in it right away you feel like you're invested but it's not high stakes yet and it's not complicated so for a first time fantasy reader I think this would be a great choice perfect i agree and five stars it's so it depends what lens you're looking at it through so I'm comparing it to other fantasy books and that's where I land so okay yeah maybe if you're looking to get into the fantasy genre you don't really know where to start i feel like this would be a great book because you're not going to be sitting there in the beginning like like you know the lady with all the equations around her head like it's not going to be like that i feel like I love the magic system i love the world like I was really sucked in it's beautiful storytelling but it wasn't overly complicated or I don't know know I just I didn't get bogged down in the details like that can sometimes happen in fantasy books mhm yeah definitely so you guys can expect a you know four-st star read one spice read from Spark of the Everflame if you're thinking about getting started on this um but should we get into our spoiler section let's go spark of the Ever Flame spoilers the sound of a fire sparking get out of here go on it if you don't want spoilers check out that interview that we did though for some more details and insight about the author and a little bit more about the themes and stuff that are still spoilerfree so we'll definitely link that and come back check us out later when you finish the book yeah let's do it all right okay so the five sentence summary for Spark of Ever Triangle today woo let's go here we go all right dm Bellator lives with her father a semi-retired war general and the only father she's ever known her mother Orai who's a healer of or at the palace and her super smart younger brother Teller who will hopefully go to a university one day in a world where humans are oppressed by the descended a super powerful demigod race one that was good that was very like concise ring of the triangle or whatever you call it you earned it thank you uh DM has to take flameroot powder every day to keep some mysterious illness that causes her to have hallucinations at bay but when her mother mysteriously goes missing after having a hidden conversation with Prince Luther she stops taking it because it dulls her senses and she doesn't think she needs it two DM decides to take her mother's place at the palace to maintain the bargain for Teller's education but also joins her boyfriend in the resistance group the Guardians of the Everflame to try to figure out what Prince Luther has to do with her mother's disappearance and to help take down the descended in general but in doing so saves Luther's little sister from an accident that almost killed her earning his cautious trust three dm struggles with her quest for answers revenge and freedom from the oppression humans face in the society controlled by the descended and her realization that Prince Luther his sister and many of the demigods in the palace are actually quite pleasant she agrees to care for King Luther King Ulur sorry it's hard to say on his deathbed where he mysteriously refers to her as the quote devourer of crowns and alludes to the fact that she has a mysterious gift and a connection to the descended that she is not aware of four dm and Luther have an intense confrontation where they feel an undeniable connection but choose to push it away after their first kiss because of their oppositional places in society and ideals dm's father announces he's going back to war to keep the rebels at bay and in the final moments of the book DM has a powerful transformation in which the crown of Lumnos appears on her head making her the queen and we also find out her mother is alive ooh five five the end great five sentence summary thank you it was a fun one to write because I feel like a lot happened but again it wasn't convoluted which I love cuz when I'm writing my summary I'm like "Okay we can actually write what this is about there's not 10,000 side quests to nowhere." Great mhm definitely it's great so why don't we just start off with the three tropes from this book that we loved the most yeah sounds good okay let's do it so for me my first ones was or my first one was enemies to quote unquote lovers but really what it is is just a slow burn right now mhm yep they are not lovers but this is where we see that it might be going in the future mhm um I picked Chosen One i love a good chosen one story um and then Hidden Identity i really liked that yes i feel like that was kind of one of the things that made this book really interesting to me is that everyone kind of had a hidden identity going on right it's like what's King Luther up to what's her mom up to what's she up to what's Henry up to like everyone kind of has like this jewel like you know secret life that they've got going on i really liked that yeah for sure i put also slow burn and I said and it's still slowly burning but I don't mind yeah same same we can see a burn going somewhere as long as it doesn't go to nowhere I'm liking it right um broading MMC only soft for her vibes are forming right now because you know they talk about that his like demeanor kind of changes when she's around like he drops a little bit you know and lets her uh speak back to him a little bit and then badass FMC already you know yeah so before we even know that she has some kind of crown on her she's holding her own all the time you know yeah she's going against Luther immediately and like whatever descended okay I'm still going to like freaking tease you and make fun of you so I love I can relate to that she's like the most renowned war general in the realm's daughter she's very like highly trained in combat which I also I also appreciate that she's not a chosen one that's like all you know weak and mild she's strong without anything else going on so she's already has a leg up for whatever happens in the next book I think so that's kind of nice yeah and I like I feel like she is a believable character because while she is strong she is a trained fighter you know she has strong ideals i think to a degree she knows who she is as a person she also is young she doesn't fully know who she is as a person like she you know makes mistakes and I appreciate that kind of balance with her character you know cuz she's not overly confident but she is like she makes mistakes because she is confident in certain ways and I really like that too yeah she's learning definitely she's figuring it out yeah and I appreciate how Pen Cole is writing her so far you know that she does allow her characters to make mistakes and not get it right the first time so far so be interesting to see if that continues throughout the other books yeah the one trope I hated the only thing I could come up with is when the FMC is not catching on to something that is really obvious um and so I like that she is a realistic person i like that she makes mistakes she's a well-rounded character but sometimes you just want to like beat her over the head and be like why are you not seeing what all of us are seeing and I get that when you're living it it's different than when you're like an outside external observer but still just being like "Hey so you're probably descended hey so you're probably des like you know," and she's just like in denial throughout the whole book like even once she has the freaking crown floating above her head you're like "Girl." Yeah so I think I even commented on Fable about that i was like "This better not this better not be one of those where the entire book were like screaming at her like "Hello read the room." And while that is exactly what happened I just liked the way Pen Cole wrote it that you know she's highly convinced that she has this medical condition that will make her see all that stuff yeah and um that she has this feeling about the descended you know that she can't believe herself to be one of them either so we're having to see her deconstruct things so for me and I think the book was only like what maybe 400 pages so for me it didn't drive me as crazy as I thought it was going to you know because of the way it was written so I completely understand though why you guys it would drive you crazy but for me I was like "Okay as long as it doesn't go much further than this after she has that crown we'll see if she's still denying it then I'm going to scream." You know if it continues on for I've given you enough benefit of the doubt if it continues on though I'm out well for me that's just me nitpicking because really I didn't hate anything in this book it was just if I had to pick something that would be the thing where I would just be like "Girl figure it out." But it wasn't it didn't necessarily annoy me either maybe occasionally but it wasn't something that was like a deal breaker for me with this book at all yeah definitely um so for me I put um first love is like oh yeah right and I liked him at first and then that suddenly took a turn real fast in my notes here I put "Luckily that was taken care of." And I think that was in reference to like her totally freaking out when he proposed oh wow cuz like what an idiot so I'll talk about a little bit more later in my least favorite most favorite stuff but yeah that's what I put you know so hey so what about like a micro trope that like stood out to you that you liked or disliked oh I love a good old person with a crazy vision so we got two of them it was great i love that got the lady in the town and then the dying king it gives me like that moment in Lord of the Rings like that's who I totally envisioned i'm just now realizing this where he's like he they turned him into an old person and he is like you know all crazy with the foggy eyes so that's what I envisioned as King Uther uther that's weird saying it out uther that's weird saying it out loud okay so yeah a good crazy vision person what about you literally what I put I put prophecy oh yeah the same thing so I wasn't necessarily fixated on like the crazy old person part um but on the the prophecy part I find that to be really really interesting and I love when that's used in fantasy books to kind of like give us an idea of what might is you know happen in the future what's to come yeah and for the just to give you guys some more visual treats the lady I imagine in the village telling um DM the her vision is like the princess bride and she's like boo so you're welcome for that that's who I imagine perfect there you go might be totally wrong based on the description we were given in the book but that's what came to mind so there you go yeah see the only description that came to mind for me is like if you've watched um House of the Dragon I pictured King Ulur as like the king that was dying in House of the Dragon and that was a little bit less entertaining it was more just like scary and kind of like Yeah but hey but hey but hey um so here's a question for you i feel like this book is getting really popular right now on Bookstagram Book Talk just in general we've seen it everywhere target Barnes & Noble like it's literally everywhere now um do you understand why like should it be that popular does it deserve to be that popular what do you think yeah totally the more the marrier let's go what about you yeah yeah i put it's warranted 100% i said the world and magic system is so well done but easy to understand so it's great for fantasy newbies i love that yeah mhm i love that there's so many good fantasy books that I absolutely love that I feel like when people ask me for a good introduction I'm like like this is really good but I don't want to like scare them away from the genre totally um and this is just it's like a shoein like please just read it like every like if you love romant you know what I mean it's like everyone can enjoy this it's good for everyone yeah it's rare that a book can do that i think agree you know and this one does it yeah it's going good i get it it's good so what about your favorite part i honestly loved any interaction between DM and Luther loved it ate it up with a spoon yep yep so good there's something banter yeah about an author who can write a slow burn in such a perfect way yeah it's like his I love his character i love her character like Yeah their banter together like neither of them are giving away too much but just enough to keep the other one interested i love it and then obviously we have this like really great I put for my favorite part the kiss they only kissed once in this book guys and but it is a good one yeah made it count yeah they made it count um and it was just the perfect amount i feel like you know it's like I love myself a good spicy book you guys know this about me i love romance i love dark romance it's great i also really love it when a book like this can have us rooting for two characters who literally kiss once during the entire book and it's just as satisfying you know what I mean mh it's like I love that so yeah I put I put the kiss the infamous kiss from book one mhm definitely what do you What did you put for your least favorite part least favorite part okay um yeah so this is where I put I didn't love her constant denial of her power but I also get it but it was frustrating and we didn't fully see the scope of her power but it's a fairly short book for fantasy so I suspect we'll see more so that was my prediction and that's what I said on the note so yeah yeah we already discussed it at length i didn't I wrote this like a month ago so now I'm like"Oh it's all new information again to me." Just as new to you guys as to us yeah what about you what is your least favorite part uh I put her going around thinking she's a rebel like it's just it bothered it was like it's a very young and passionate Yeah uh viewpoint right i feel like we've all been there you know where we're very very strong in our convictions but don't really necessar there's no nuance to that belief system right it's like you're very stuck on believing this one thing and we don't exist in you know the gray areas and we don't understand that the whole world is a both and situation right and so I think that um that's what we're watching DM figure out and so I think that it annoyed me because I was like "Okay great now you're working you know with Henry for the like basically the underground rebellion movement and she's thinking that she's qualified to do these things but she's really just like running around the castle like a crazy person just like wreaking havoc and she I mean you know it's endearing but it's also kind of funny as like kind of watching Luther just like re in this like feral creature in his kingdom you know what I mean and I love his character because he's just you know I don't know i'm like do we know how old Luther is at this point i don't think so i don't know yeah well we get they're immortal in a way they said right so yeah they like to a point so yeah I don't remember my inclination would be that he's quite a bit older than her but if not quite a bit at least some you know and he's just very you know it's like you're saying tall dark and handsome broody quiet you know calculating um and so you where she's just kind of like I'm young i'm impassioned i'm crazy i'm going to be running all over the kingdom trying to like you know be covert even though it's like are you being covert at all um and Luther is just kind of like patiently watching this play out and I just love that about him um and so sometimes they'll kind of annoy me where I'm like girl what are you doing literally what are you doing you don't know what you're doing you're just going to get caught and get in trouble and then the only reason why you don't get in big trouble is because Luther has a thing for you[Music] basically yeah well I think she touches on it briefly here about just like it's almost kind of with exactly what you just said you see the juxaposition of how a mortal would operate versus an immortal so the immortal have all the time in the world they can be slow patient methodical where the mortals feel like they're on a time crunch cuz as far as we know right now she's mortal before she gets that crown so she feels like you know at any minute she can go and is going to be dead so you need a times a tick you know so you have that wild side definitely i just picture Luther just like standing there in the castle you know just like all six foot seven or seven feet of him you know just like in his all black outfit just with his arms crossed just watching her as she just is you know zipping around threatening his guards with her sword and like doing all this crazy stuff and he's just watching it happen you know just like "Okay get it out of your system get it out." Yeah yeah exactly so good mhm so then who's your favorite character from book one i love DM she's great even though she's young and making some weird choices I love her she's great very well-built character what about you luther is my favorite character i mean I love DM as well don't get me wrong she's great but I just I appreciate Luther on a lot of different levels because I feel like you know we get a lot of MMC's and I think that Penn even uh touched on this during the interview you know it's like we get a lot of MMC's that are real hardened and um you know they've had such a tragic backstory that they come across as very very closed off and kind of grouchy and mean almost and we love them right it's like we love the like king fishers of the world right but I feel like Luther is different you can tell that at the core of him like he might be quiet and reserved and calm and calculated but he is you can tell that he feels really deeply and he's not someone who's lashing out a lot or being intentionally rude or um you know being particularly like he's a little grumpy but not like too much he's a grumpy in that he's grumpy at himself i think that's what's different self-loathing kind of he's self-loathing but also because he takes his job as a protector so seriously so when something doesn't go the way he wanted it to he has a lot of selflame you know so I feel like he's Brody in that way yeah he's like he's not projecting on other people no he's not which I think we see a lot of so that's kind of refreshing maybe that's what it is like now that we're talking it out maybe it's like that maturity that comes from a certain level of like self-awareness and I feel like that's very obvious with his character because he's not going around taking it out on everyone else he is beating himself up which isn't good either but cuz a lot of it is out of his control but I do appreciate that about his character you can just tell that he's just so passionate and kind at the heart of himself you know mhm yeah yeah definitely agreed yeah what about your least favorite character henry henry thanks uh yeah and the way he flipped to misogyny so fast cuz I liked him at the beginning i know i was like "Wow a first love that might be hard to like let go like and I'll care about." Oh well she made sure that was out the door no feelings there um that was also my least favorite part so Henry asking DM to marry him and have babies and like be a quiet little the total Gaston vibes but he doesn't got the you know brute to back it up I feel I think of like a little page boy like running around with his little messenger bag delivering no offense male but like no offense to your husband but like different page boy you know different Yeah but yeah like I just I just don't And he she never even asked him i mean she never even answered when he wanted to be boyfriend girlfriend she's like "Read the room." No yeah read the room you guys have been like hanging out more seriously for like a week you know so I just I just hate it and I put exactly that i just hate when guys can't read the room she doesn't want that life like she literally at this point wants to is even in the Guardians and you're like why don't you just live a quiet life as my wifey and like have babies and she's just like you've been my best friend my whole life and that's what you think that I want i know it's like it's also like sometimes it's okay to just be friends like Yeah but you know that's an important thing to learn growing up it is but I do I did feel I was frustrated by Henry it's and I think it comes back to another thing that you said too where it's like he he's like the guy who wants to be the Luther but he doesn't have what it takes to back that up it's like he's all it's like he's all talk it's like just unattractive and just it's he's very boyish and that's what he's supposed to be that's what he's supposed to be because it's I think you know letting Henry go or whatever you know not being sure if she wants to proceed with that relationship after he asks her to marry him etc like I think you know it's like a it's a coming of age thing it's a figuring out who you are and sometimes that means you know not going down the path that society or other people want for you and I think that's what Henry kind of represents too i mean it's more complicated than that but I think that's a big part of it for sure for sure who was your least favorite character same oh yeah okay good yeah henry all the way for sure so do you have any notable quotes for us yeah so I wrote down and at this point I don't remember who said what but here you go i think this is Luther actually said this to Dian don't choose a mediocre life for a mediocre man so circling right back to what we just said go be exceptional if he's worth it he won't judge you and if he's really the one he'll come along for the ride i don't remember who said that now maybe it's the That sounds like No that sounds like Okay yeah that was beautiful that was That was great good advice good advice and it shows a lot of people could take that advice for sure well it shows a level of selflessness too with Luther where it's like you can tell that he cares about her you can tell that there's something more a brewin right between them but he's also not telling her what to do he's not telling her you know it's not he doesn't give a touch her and die when it comes to choices that she should be able to make on her own and I really appreciated that obviously if it it's like a touch and die if someone were to try to harm her for sure but I feel like with the Henry situation he's like exactly what you just said she needs to go and she needs to make her own choices so the these are from DM i was made of swinging fists and rash words my edges too jagged and my temper too hot nothing about me was delicate so I loved her like where she's she's a self-aware person also she's figuring herself out you know um so I wrote down several of those kinds of quotes i wondered how long I had until the fire in my soul burned me alive i loved that like all the imagery you know intentional it's really good um it was a creature of its own this thing inside of me it was a little match that eternally wavered above the pile of kindling that was my shredded soul a drum beat that called my temper to arms at every provocation beautiful yeah um I'd always been a spit a spitfire and proud of it an unbreakable spirit in a world that wanted me to be quiet small subservient but no longer was that spark manifesting in courage or innocent mischief now it had become something destructive something deadly yeah and then this was just like a general quote um there's more than one way to be strong which we found out was a huge theme you know in general with these books and you know Pen Cole brought it up in the interview as well which definitely I really love that okay so let's just pivot a little bit did you pull out any specific feminist themes from this book that you liked yeah so I put down female empowerment feminine rage fighting the patriarchy henry and later her dad also wanting her to have that small simple life we talked about and she doesn't want it for herself cuz it's okay to want that but when she clearly doesn't want it you know and she sticks up for herself so going against that those social expectations oh absolutely especially for us females mhm yeah all those things are what I picked up in this book what did you pick up um so I put strength being defined in many ways so questioning what strength is and who gets to define that um dismantling of traditional values like marriage mhm um I put eugenics and a corrupt hierarchal society yes yeah um which obviously is a huge theme in this book um just with all the laws they have as far as like you know the descended not um like if a descended has a baby with a mortal then they have to kill the baby mhm so that's huge um uprising and action to change things yeah um healing versus fighting which was a big theme which I liked um quote unquote male versus quote unquote female qualities so breaking out of the confines society has placed you in mhm um and then I put a lot of fire imagery as well so yeah to me these were all very like strong feminist themes and to go back to what you had said earlier to find out that you know in no uncertain terms like these were put in there intentionally for these reasons by the author I just love that it makes me love DM's character even more yes yeah definitely so what about DM to you if you have any more things to add stand out about her as like a little bit different of an FMC like unique what makes her unique h I mean pretty much all the things that we've already kind of discussed a little bit but like yeah willing to stand up for herself and begin to unravel everything that she's known about her life you know we're just seeing the starts of that right now i feel like questioning the status quo and doing it without being afraid is great mhm i put that she recognizes that she's living all of these feminist ideals just by existing and doing what she in her heart feels is the right next step but she hasn't put two and two together yet so I love that in this book book one it's like she you know she wants to be part of the rebellion because obviously she wants to protect her people but then she you know realize she's coming to realize that the descended are also some of them good people it's just it's a more complicated situation it's not so black and white and I think that she's figuring out that you know there's a lot of different ways to fix a problem there's a lot of different ways to be strong there's a lot of different ways that um you know she can help create change in this world that are outside of maybe what she learned growing up and I love that yeah yeah we're just kind of seeing the beginning of we're seeing her be fall into herself and what she believes as a fully formed human and seeing that well both sides are kind of wrong and they're both right but they're going about it wrong you know that you know the guardians are taking things too far they sent that girl they got that girl sick so that she could sneak into her so it's like at what cost you know are you going to do the right thing and it kind of reminds me of like how is it the Hunger Games that's like yeah you know spoiler for the end of the Hunger Games but it's kind of like okay if we replace this if we replace the capital are we replacing it with another capital you know President Coin for instance you know if we're going to go out and get rid of the the um the sended or the guardians just as bad you know it's like we don't so they're going to just wipe out So she's having to like process what their intentions fully are what did she really sign up for and I appreciate that you know that she's recognizing things right now for what they are and is going like "Hey huh what?" You know she goes into that burning building that she felt responsible for um and making a stand against and now she's going to have multiple targets on her back you know it's going to be crazy well she helps to save Descended who she never would have thought you know that she would be risking her life to save we're seeing her deconstruct everything that she's known yeah you know totally on both sides yeah and really when you think about it it's like you know at the end when she gets the crown it's like that moment when we realize and maybe she realizes too that she's literally going to have to now walk in the enemy's shoes and like what does that mean you know how does that change your perception so then the flip side of that coin so what do we think about Luther is Luther a feminist like how does he support her at this point yeah i think far as what we know for sure just him like even you know giving her advice on what to do about Henry in a nonbiased way you know do what's right for you and trying to help her see herself for what he is cuz you know he feels something he He's seen her heal crazy healing abilities that don't make any sense he's witnessed a lot of things that she's done that don't make sense so right now I think that he is kind of just watching and waiting and encouraging her to be her full self whatever that means so I agree supportive i think that shows how he's can be a feminist in that way yeah I agree and I think that you know that was one of the things that kind of inspired us to seek out the interview with Pen Cole was this idea that you know we when we were listening to her speak on one of the panels she was talking about how lots of times you know the the MMC's that we identify with the most or that we appreciate the most as their characters it's because they are they appreciate the qualities and their female female counterpart so in this case it would be DM that in real life women are discouraged or not appreciated for having um and so I think Luther is a perfect example of this type of um MMC because yeah is she literally figuring it out and acting kind of maybe not the smartest sometimes yes but like at the same time you know he sees that she is passionate and strong willed and you know just at the bottom line she wants to protect the people that she cares about and all people in the kingdom really because she sees value in human life as a healer and in descended life as a healer too um and I think that he is there to support her really yeah even though they aren't together and you know there's nothing in it for him there's nothing in it for him no at this point there's nothing in it for him he's just kind of waiting in the wings and I love that i mean they have that one kiss but that's it mhm so we kind of talked about it a little bit but do you have anything to add about the spice about the the one kiss and the slowb burn oh slowburn was great love it 10 out of 10 yeah I wouldn't change anything i put spic's slowb burn excellence yeah this is how you do it this is how you do it this is how you do it yeah exactly exactly la so obviously we're covering all of the books for the podcast we have Ben on you guys know how we feel um but I truly you know with like 100% honestly will say that even if all of these things were not going on and I had started this book completely on my own behalf without any of this I would continue on and read the sequels hands down agreed same yeah yeah i feel like it ended on a cliffhanger but it was still just so good and satisfying and it wasn't chaotic and I was just ready to start book two yeah and it's also that perfect thing so kind of like because it's straight and to the point cuz we start so many uh series you know through book club that we can't ever get around to book two but this would be one that I'm like I'll easily just keep doing it you know I switched to the audio for book two and I would do that outside of podcasting as well because it's one that's easy to follow on an audio book so there fantasy is not always that way you know so it's one that is like oh yeah let's keep going you know mhm let's keep doing it speaking of that like because I also have been switching back and forth um on this journey between uh Kindle and audiobook what do you think about the audio books i think it's great I read this one physically and book two is the audio book and I love the the voice is like perfect for me it's exactly what was in my head for DM anyways you know so it's great love it mhm yeah i would say the same thing yeah books one and two just have one audio narrator so um one female narrator who does all the voices but she's an excellent voice actor and so not cringey doesn't pull you out when she does the other voices she's great book three uh there are two voice actors um but I have not gotten to any of like the male voices yet so I don't know anything about them agreed oh I did put that I do have some like I'm excited obviously I'm reading the sequels um but I did put a few questions that I had after book one right like what actually is her connection to Luther like we can speculate because we've read a lot of romanty right it's like what is Luther to her at this point my inclination was like well they they're probably mates right they're probably faded mates that's what I'm guessing right now because from what we know like he just seems drawn to her and that's just in fantasy that's what happens next yeah i mean we h you can neither confirm nor deny that is and truly truly I have no idea you know even though we've read I don't know nothing and you can't make me say anything even if I did I don't know nothing so that was definitely one question I had after book one who's her real father yeah that's another big question and is her is her mother her real mother at this point i don't know like what do we know she has a freaking floating crown of fire on her head we know nothing we don't really have confirmation that her parents you know that her mom is I guess technically her mom i mean we do know that she's her mom but like do we you know I don't know we can be skeptical i question everything right now question everything yeah um if a crown floats onto your head I'm going to be skeptical of everything and everyone yeah luther's her brother oh my god i know that thought did cross my mind and I was like"Oh I hope not." Yeah like multiple times like "Oh they're What if they're closely?" H Oh no they kissed oh no oh no uh but no I don't think that's the case i don't think she'd do us like that that would be so sad um so sad her dad I mean who raised her we know that he's not her bio dad so we're assuming that her power you know has come from her biod we don't know who that is so that's a question I have we also don't know what her powers are really so what is that yeah we know about this healing thing you know and that's it yeah i just put she's a descendant right or she's a descended right like that's what I put like because it's like we kind of don't have much confirmation at the end of this book we don't really know what's going on in general with like the rebellion we know her dad is going to go back to war because the rebellion started back up but it's just you know this was a great book one and I feel like it was just it was giving us enough information to keep us interested giving us a bunch of questions but nothing that was confusing or out of place or that was frustrating to not know after book one yeah you know yeah mhm so I appreciated that a lot so okay let's just do some reviews okay real quick let's go so I got the one stars pulled up shall we start with the worst on the hide note yes yes yes yes yes okay this is brutal but that as are one stars okay from nerd read one star 1800 garbage oh no did I read the same book as everyone else because I don't understand the hype terrible yeah oh that's mean sorry i disagree but okay yeah respectfully I guess yep one star special thanks to this book because I always thought of myself as an insomniac but every time I picked it up I dozed off oh yeah i thought this was fastpaced me too i blew through this book i loved it yeah oh my gosh okay okay let's give a little more context here okay okay okay one star maybe one and a half i'm finally finally done with this book i have never struggled or disliked a book so much in my life maybe Alleion or Ready Player One okay i feel like those are really highly reviewed books too yeah yeah yeah maybe they don't like popular books i DNFED it three or four times and finally finished oh man never got better hey not for everyone clearly um but I'm I'm looking for reasons other than feeling like it's slow that looks like the consensus which is interesting that is interesting i didn't find it slow at all yeah hey felt drawn out so predictable yeah I can see okay someone said predictable yes it's a little predictable yeah sure but I'm here for the ride so it's fine if you think if you read enough fantasy books things can get predictable we've predicted a lot of things that probably will or won't come true you know okay but I'm not I personally don't get mad if things are predictable as long as it's not like it borders okay it does border with DM's character right because her being different is predictable but to me I see it as and maybe we're biased but I see it as Penn doing it in a specific way in a deconstructing way so but we didn't know that we read it before we interviewed her but what did we find out yeah exactly but I feel like this your theory here was almost substantiated because remember what she said in her interview she actually wrote book two first and then went back and intentionally wrote book one because she wanted us to see how DM would have gotten from point A to point B instead of just starting out in point B mhm so I would have to say that I agree with you especially knowing that information that I think that this was all part of the plan you gotta just go with the plan because I feel like you know I mean I'm only on the beginning of book three but I feel like it's paying off real nicely yeah i mean it is it is de it is frustrating to see like to see people deconstructing where you're like "Oh you're almost there." But then they're not quite there we're seeing that a lot right now you know in life in the world in the United States um so it's like "Oh you're almost there you're almost to the point but then they're like but then they back up and they get scared they get scared of reaching that goalpost so we're seeing that right now well yeah and I mean think about it guys it's like how many of us were mentally and emotionally mature enough to even attempt to tap into our full potential when we were like 20 years old good luck good luck yeah so I feel like you know it's we're watching her figure it out and I appreciate it and I love that Penn told us that little nugget of info because I think that that is so telling to to it made book one what it is and I really appreciated that yeah and I think that's why this going back to our reviews at the beginning our personal reviews while this might be a four stars now who knows when we finish this series it may bump the first book up to five stars especially you reminding me how what she was saying in the interview because it's so intentional it changes your perspective because then you can appreciate the first book as a fivestar level you know depending on where it goes yeah so I agree okay so just to hit us with a couple five stars um just to bring up the mood a little bit here um so Carrie on Goodreads five stars this is without a doubt in my top five books from 2023 might even be in the top five of all time from the very first page I was hooked and dove head first into the world spun up by Pen Cole i can safely say this is the only book that has ever made me audibly laugh out loud while I was reading it felt like I was a fly on the wall following around the FMC DM Bellator i felt her conflict felt involved in her decisions and even cringed a few times when she did something silly out of line or downright embarrassing i was never able to predict what was happening next which made me all the more invested in the story i can't even count how many times I would finish a chapter close my Kindle and say"Gosh this is such a good book." Yeah or tell my partner "This book is so good." To which his response was and I quote"Women," or "Woman control yourself." I will be recommending this book to anyone who will listen and be patiently waiting for the next in the series so I love that mhm yeah well said well said and then Maya gave it a five star she said "Ah I loved this book from beginning to end literally couldn't put it out of my hands it was so easy to fall into a reading flow with this book and I really love DM as the main character she just feels real loved the world building it wasn't overwhelming at all and was nicely embedded into the story the side characters are also so likable except you Henry yeah and I cannot wait to get more scenes with Luther so excited to start the second one." So yeah I feel like those were both very like similar assessments to like how I would talk about this book you know perfect echo chamber yeah perfect echo chamber yeah 100% so confirms our thoughts confirms i know so before we wrap this up with a smash or pass do you have any final thoughts final words no no no thoughts head empty what about you um no i think that this you know wraps it up well and I feel good about it i'm excited to keep going with the series and talking to you guys about it because it's just I love it when you know obviously not everyone would agree but I love it when a series is hyped and then it pays off when you're reading it it's so like satisfying you know what I mean yes yeah totally totally agreed okay so do you want to go first with Smash or Pass or do you want me to go first i went first last time so it is your turn okay so you actually gave me this idea so I bumped my other one off of the list because I have to know because I don't think that we've talked about this before if we have then sorry that I forgot but I feel like we've been doing this a while now so that's gonna happen more and more often so okay smash or pass Pedro Pascal oh no i don't think we have okay I love the like memes and the hype about him so another thing that's hard for me to explain however and I get it cuz he's really nice and funny he's funny dude i'd hang out with him as far as a Smash goes though I feel like people are going to yell at me but it's a pass that's me too that's why I had to ask you yeah we're the only people the last of us if you will full circle baby i know i know you know he's great though i love him he's hilarious if you guys have to watch that Nicholas Cage movie with him in it have you Yeah yeah me and my husband were dying the whole time pedro Pascal is obviously in it and so funny and that's where a lot of the memes come from but he's great love him but like as a romantic smash no as a I'd hang out with you smash like you're funny yeah maybe that's what it is maybe he gives like funny big brother or like Yeah that's what I get from him too like just um you know like BFF vibes like it yeah for some reason I know people love him as the Mandalorian you know and we love a good master for sure he seems very sweet and like caretaker and you know he's I think politically he's spoken up about injustices and stuff so we appreciate that but yeah yeah as far as what everybody else sees good for you guys good for you guys i get it i get I get it it's just not my vibe I guess but hey he's too much of a nice guy for me you guys know that yeah yeah if we're talking unhinged here it's not unhinged enough no but he is comedy comedy wise but it's just funny where it's taken i was curious yeah i don't think we ever talked about it yeah okay well although he is very grumpy in The Last of Us he's such a good actor i just appre I appreciate him as a person he Yeah he's a chameleon i will he is a chameleon i will admit that because I feel like he's very different in all of his different roles and when you hear his interviews and who he is as just his own person he's also very different so I love that you know it's like he can just play so many roles so well yeah it's like Smash but not for the reasons you guys think you know romantically it's a pass yeah I agree but Smash for everything else great okay um because I was trying to do something fiery and flamy and I don't think we've done this one before but you never know uh Lord of the Rings oh Ballro oh h the ballro fire demon guy that comes after i'm letting the people know who might not you shall not pass yeah the guy from the chasm with the whip i'm going to say I'm going to say smash yeah with the whip smash but Pedro Pascal pass smash it's a sliding scale guys it's a sliding scale um yeah i mean you know if I was also a balro I don't know how that works is there is there is that a species or is it just a one-off i don't know um but Oh poor guy he's lonely i know uh if I was his same species for sure or I mean even like I mean he gives like um you know demon of the underworld which we love a good uh paranormal romance so maybe he would just kidnap me and keep me in his um underground fiery layer and he seems misunderstood he does and I can fix him yeah we can fix it he's just trying to protect his realm guys it's true we don't know justice for Ballrog oh my gosh so you're a Smash too yeah cool you know you heard it here first all right guys sorry Pedro i know i know but different but we're not because we still want to be your friend yeah it's Smash for different reasons great different reason so I mean I love that this was a great conversation about book one in the Kindred's Kindred's Curse Saga i always want to call it the Kingdom Curse Saga kindred's Curse Saga um yeah i always want to say Kindred Saga's Cursed of Flames great so awesome that just flows right off the top it's just a word salad up there jocking around yep so yeah so you know if you guys are interested in reading along with us for books one and two we've got the Fable Chats going mhm come join Come join us and make sure to like follow and subscribe anywhere you like listen your favorite podcast including YouTube because we got books two and three we're on like an every other week schedule for those drops but we always put we were here every Tuesday so that way if you aren't reading it yet we still are bringing you something so we have other episodes going in between these to keep it cool man to keep it cool so follow us there and also at Tik Tok and Instagram at besties in the books podcast and fable besties in the book club and you guys we'll see you next Tuesday bye[Music]