Ep 71 HEAT of the EVERFLAME Review, Summary, and Deep Dive | Kindred’s Curse Saga Book 3 Artwork

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Ep 71 HEAT of the EVERFLAME Review, Summary, and Deep Dive | Kindred’s Curse Saga Book 3

July 22, 2025 • Besties and the Books • Episode 71

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We interviewed Penn Cole, we took a deep dive into Spark and Glow of the Everflame, and today we’re continuing on with our deep dive into book 3: Heat of the Everflame. With the first fifteen minutes being spoiler free, and including our basic star and spice ratings!

Check out our full Kindred's Curse Saga Playlist | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=103nCXINMP4&list=PLHf5v0KOoZMmK0bBoRxZWmqNtG88fxs4v&pp=gAQB

At this point, we’re taking the time needed to deep dive some conspiracy theories and speculate as to how this series may end. Honestly, we can’t even imagine how Penn Cole is going to tie up all these loose ends, especially with Heat ending in the epic way it did… on a cliffhanger like no other.

Diem continues to break away from more common fantasy conventions and tropes by embodying feminist themes focused on ruling with non-violence, even when presented with immense power. We discuss why this is important, and why having an MMC like Luther who continues to support her, but must now make some impossible choices may challenge some of the more alternative themes we’ve grown to appreciate from this series.

We break down our favorite and least favorite parts, tropes, and characters, share reviews, and discuss whether or not we’re looking forward to reading the final book. And dive into the web of secrets that we feel like we (and Diem) are just now beginning to unravel.

As usual, we have some extra treats, starting out with a Labubu and bruised pinky themed fave and fail and a smash or pass fantasy daddy / bad boy fish edition.

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Check out these author interviews? ⬇️
Penn Cole talks with us about Strong Female Characters, Feminist Themes, and her debut bestselling Spark of the Everflame Series! https://youtu.be/7ukNImyoObw?si=7C3Y9kOUMN4hfcKb

Check the official Author Interview with Lindsay Straube of Split or Swallow! Now a Barnes & Noble & Amazon best seller titled: Kiss of the Basilisk! https://youtu.be/fknhocSNIKM

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Ashley is Wearing: body suit from OQQ Fitness | * https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT6jVseYC/
Liz is Wearing: “Fireheart To Whatever End” Throne of Glass Crewneck by @thebeanworkshop | Use Code: BOOKBESTIES10 to save! | https://thebeanworkshop.store/products/whatever-end-sweatshirt?_pos=5&_sid=10b3abca7&_ss=r

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which was basically impossible. Liz is like SOS elemental breakdown and fire. Not well on boooo lives all week. Sorry. Name the popular movie by the bread. Welcome to the Besties in the Books podcast. I'm Liz. And I'm Ashley. And welcome to what is technically our fourth installment of our Kindred's Curse series. Today we are focusing on Heat of the Everflame book number three, which was a doozy. Wow. Guys, if you're watching this and you've read it, you know that was a big boy right there. A big book for sure. Oh my gosh. Yep. So, this is setting us up for the fourth book to be released. Date tentative still, but they're hoping by the end of the year they it'll be released. And that will be Burn of the Everflame. So, you know, we'll be covering that one as soon as it comes out and we read it. It's probably going to be a doozy, too. Yeah. I Well, it couldn't not be. I could not be. Yeah. Like, h 200 pages. Yeah. I'm just going to wrap it up real quick. Like, that would be so disorienting. Um, so yeah. So, today we're going to be discussing all things heat of the Everflame. So, as you guys know, we kicked this series off with Pen Cole's interview. So, that was wonderful. If you haven't checked it out, make sure to give that a watch or a listen. Um, we took our deep dives into Spark and Glow of the Everflame and now we're here with the book that has broken our brains pretty much. So, it's our first time reading all of these. So, all you know, everything that we're reacting to each other today like is basically all brand new information to both of us. We've talked about it a little bit ahead of time, but not much. Um, if you guys want to follow along even more on our journey, make sure to check us out over at Fable at Besties in the Book Club. We do have the first two books available there. Um, and today we'll be doing our usual, you know, reaction and response type video. Um, where we will be focusing on, you know, things we liked and disliked, but with kind of like that what are the feminist theme overtones, um, and undertones and also kind of maybe what are our theories and predictions moving forward. Um because as Pen Gold does, she always leaves us on these insane cliffhers. Yeah. So, here we are. Um we will start off with our, you know, 15 minute spoilerfree star rating and spice rating. That way you guys know that right out of the gate. And then we will give you um you know, a little warning just to let you know that we're moving into our spoiler section before we get into all that happens. Yeah. In this book, we're going to give you a summary. We try to make it brief, but guys, it's a lot. But you know, if you need a refresher for this book, you know, hopefully this episode will help refresh your memory because we we had to refresh it for sure. Yeah. And like on that note, I definitely want to give like a huge shout out right here at the top of this episode to Nicole and Ally over at Romanty Readers Podcast. Um they have an episode called Heat of the Everflame Book Breakdown and Review that you could go watch on YouTube or listen to. And to me, it was one of the best summaries that I've heard. And it definitely really helped me out when I was putting together our five sentence summary, which was basically impossible. Liz is like SOS, health, mental breakdown happening. Like, there are just some books that like, yeah, could I sum this up in five sentences? I really could, but it would take out like 99% of what happened. So, in order for me to actually include some of the important things that happened, it's basically five extremely long runon sentences. So, there you go. Just know what you're getting into there. Um, but again, go check out Romanty Readers podcast. Thank you so much, Nicole and Ally, for putting that together to help my brain not completely explode. We'll have that link down below so you guys can check it out, too. Yes. Um, but yeah, you know, we'll talk about how excited we are for book four and, you know, what we're expecting going forward. But before we get into all that, we just wanted to say thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for joining us in our Spark of the Everflame journey. If you haven't yet, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to listen to your favorite podcast, including YouTube. We have a goal of trying to hit 1,000 subscribers there by the fall and then we can do something fun over there. So, super excited. Thank you guys so much for all of your support. We are at Besties in the Books podcast everywhere, including Instagram and Tik Tok. And then follow us over on Fable if you want to join some of our buddy reads and our monthly book club. We are at Besties and the Book Club there. So come hang out. Come hang out. Well, should we just start off with our faves and fails of the week this week? What have we been doing? Ease in our toes into the waters before we get into all the heavy loads. I don't know. Good luck, guys. Okay. Yeah, this this episode's got to just be what it is. Like, you know, we can only prepare so much, which was a lot. I will say this is the thing. It's like, have you seen those funny like, you know, like reals and stuff where people talk about like this is me trying my absolute hardest to like, you know, eat healthy and exercise and like be on top of everyone and I'm still average. That's this episode. It's like a lot. It's a lot of information. Yeah. It's like, you know, we read the book, we've, you know, talked about it. We even interviewed the author. Like we have done the research and it is what it is. So here we are. Just buckle up for a fun ride. Yeah. That's all we got. We're all learning and growing together. Yeah. Oh yeah. Totally. So okay. So why don't you start off with your fave and fail of the week? Just a heads up if you don't love to stay around for faves and fails. I get it. No hard feelings. I mean we're definitely feelings are hurt, but you can skip chapters. So, if you want to skip over the faves and fails and get right into the book, we get it. But we always like to do this to kind of ease us in. Stick around if you want, or you can skip chapters on YouTube and your podcast if you'd like. No worries. Um, it's really stupid. Okay. Has anybody out there stupid dude? Oh, good. Great. This silly, light-hearted icebreaker. Has uh anybody out there heard of uh laboo? Liz, have you heard of labu? Weird little like stuffed animal things like Okay. Okay. Do you like those? Apparently. Okay. So, let me tell you a little story. That's not that like out of character for you. I don't feel Yeah, exactly. Okay. So, here's the thing. Um, you know, I I peruse Tik Tok a little bit more than Instagram. Sometimes it depends on my mood. You know, Instagram, if I just want some fun prank videos now because Liz has helped me reset my algorithm, that's when I go. When I want to like hear more story times and fashion and things like that, I'm over on TikTok. So the boo the little boo boos kept coming up on the Tik Tok, you know, and I was very okay. I have this weird I'm like the opposite of parasocial relationship. I very much feel like a spectator, not a like I'm not in it like I'm just watching an outsider. I'm not a participant. I'm not a willing participant. So I was watching the Laboo and I saw the like just listen over and over again. It's going to be weird. everybody's algorithm is going to show them loos now. Sorry. Um but like so people like are ragging on them, hating on them and the people are obsessed with them and I'm just like and I would see like all the blind box unboxing whatever and I'm just like oh cute good for you. Like I wasn't even thinking do I like it? Didn't even think didn't even cross my mind. I was just like okay. And then one day a week ago I woke up and I realized wait I like these. Hang on a second. These are right up my alley. Like, how did I not think of it before? It does seem, like I said, like something you would enjoy. They're creepy. They're cute, right? I like them. It's I'm I'm easy to please. What could I say? You know what they remind me of is that little monster from um Where the Wild Things Are. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's what they look like. Mhm. Which is so cute. And I think that that was like slightly inspired by that, the original artist. Yeah. It's like a mix of things. And then So, hey, you know. So, my fave is that I like them. They're adorable. So cute. My fail is that Oh, no. I got another thing to collect. No, I got the bug. Oh, you can't collect them, Liz. Oh, you can't. They're so hard to get. I don't know. I don't know. This is why it's a fail. Exactly. So, I knew just from seeing the random like popups that they're really difficult to get and there's a bunch. All of them. Like all of them are there's probably like of the regular like $27 blind boxes, there's probably there there's three series. So 15 different ones and then So there's three series now. I know too much. This is my fail. I know too much. I didn't mean to. I did it to myself. So what I So I knew they were hard to get and then there's like some special editions that I don't really care about. So my I knew they were hard to get. I told my husband who is a baseball card collector and like all things memorabilia collector. Hey, do you have any Laboo hookups cuz I don't want to deal with this, you know, because he has friends that I don't like I don't like the reselling market, but he has friends that get stuff, you know, for in and I'm like, you know what, knowing them in the sports world, they probably heard about this and got a couple that I could probably get. I know a guy, right? He's like, I know a guy. I'm like, hey, do you know a guy? You know, do you have a Lubu guy? And Jeff's like, "Oh, I got one." And so he texted his friend and he's like, "Yeah, which one does she want?" And I'm like,"I honestly I'm like, "I don't even care. Just get me one. They're just cute. I like all of them. They're all adorable. They're just different colors. That's it, right?" Oh, they don't have like different like characters with different faces. No, they're all the same faces, just different color schemes. So like the original one that was floating around was kind of like a light brown and then they have different like the the eyes match. They have light brown eyes, like whatever. So cute. and you can match it to your clothes, whatever. So, I'm like,"Whatever. Just get me one. I don't want to think about it. End of story. Done. Just get me one." Great. Then I find out like there's a lot of knockoffs. So, then I'm like, "Oh, I don't want a knockoff, though." Yeah. And they're like, some of them are scary looking. Actually, now I really want a really bad knockoff cuz I think they're hilarious. Like the there's really creepy ones that me and my daughters were like cuz now I got my daughters into it. Whoops. So, I um said that and then about two days later he didn't hear back from him. So obviously I had to go and research it myself. Oh no, that was a mistake. And then I find out, oh, I do like certain ones. Like I honestly don't care which one I get, but I do really like these couple of, you know, like there is a green tie-dye one. Are you looking them up? Yes. Okay. There's one called Serenity in the big into energy. Somebody's listening to this going like can relate. I know. So she's super cute. There's a secret that will be impossible to get and he's like a gray black tie-dye and he has a rainbow face so it's like rainbow eyes and I think the teeth are rainbow. So cute. That will be impossible to get. So I don't care. But so unfortunately that was you know that that real and the Tik Tok that goes around that's like this has been a dream of mine for 2 hours. Yeah. Yeah. This is how I've felt like cuz this has been a week now of this where now I know like how to get like I can't get I've gotten one. I have gotten one. Oh, show him to us. I don't have it yet. Oh, okay. I was like, I want to see it. So, they have these seated ones. So, they're the same characters, but they're sitting down and f I was able to get one on the app that they have cuz they've changed everything this last week that I got into it. So, now you have to get it through an app and you have to pick the box. It's so crazy. Don't get into it, guys. It's too much of my time and energy. I shouldn't be doing this. So, I got a seat cuz I wanted one sitting one since I could be picky now. I just wanted one sitting one, any color. And then because my girls want it, we want the rainbow ones. So, I'm trying to get a set of that to then we cuz if you get a set, you're guaranteed to not have duplicates. And with girls all in the house, I don't want them fighting, you know, over them. Mhm. So, so I got the seated one randomly by luck after trying a bunch of random times. You have to be logged in at the right time, like all that stupid stuff. So, and then they also do Tik Tok lives where they do secret drops. So, that has taken up too much of my life. Um, so I haven't gotten the tie-dye collection yet. I've tried three thrice nights now and the website crashes. It's where you're in like checkout hell. like you keep clicking it and it says out of stock, out of stock, but it's in your cart. So, that's what's going on. I did get a special one for my daughter's birthday. There's a cute like Coca-Cola one. So, I was able to get that one last night. So, once I get the tie-dye collection though, I'm out. I'm out. I don't want it. But do I want the clothes? Do I want the clothes that you can buy from Etsy for them? Yes, I do. Do I want to decorate one for Halloween? Yes. Oh, that would be kind of cute. So, I want to put when I get my have a seat, I'll set them up here so you guys can see them cuz that's what I wanted them for in my book room. Isn't this cute? I want to make and I have little there's a little hack. See, it's too much stuff I found out. This is why it's a fail because I don't need to be I don't need another hyperfixation in my life. Yeah. And here I am. So, there's like, you know, the mini brands like the balls. So, people make like little things for them. So, I have a bunch of mini books from a mini brand's book ball. So, I'm going to put like a little him like reading a little or something for you guys to see, but yep. Okay, let me know. Raise your hand if you got the Loo Boooo Bug. If you didn't, I'm so sorry you're about to. I don't really get it, but like they are really cute. Like, I'm looking at a picture of them right now. Just like a couple of them just like eating. Like, listen, it's pretty cute. It will Yeah, it'll get you. It'll get you. So, that is your fave and your fail of the week. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I didn't mean for this to happen. I just wanted one. Yeah. You know, well, can't Famous last words. I still only want two, but it's just taken too much of my energy and brain space. Did the guy ever get back to you guys or No. Yeah. Yeah. He still claims he has them, but listen, the guy's a little sketchy, so I'm like, I don't trust him. It's just like It's like just a whole bunch hanging inside of his coat, you know? Yeah, probably. You know? I don't I don't know. So, um, forget it. Yeah, I don't like to do resellers anyway. So, once I found out how big that was before I really knew what a monster this thing was. So, I would rather just get it straight from the source, honestly. But, it's it I see why people get them from resellers and stuff cuz it's crazy. Like, who has time? Yeah, that's why I don't and I did it anyways. Like up at midnight refreshing the page. It's a sickness. I feel like my attention span's so bad. It's like I would be like, "Okay, I got to do this." And then I would literally forget and start doing something else and then I would forget again and then it would just never happen. It was because I had a lot of downtime this week in between like doing all the makeup at that thing uh I was doing. So unfortunately it gave me time to research. Wow. Hey, dangerous. Dangerous. And it was too loud to like read, you know. Yeah. So I needed something that I could do passively. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately that was that. So, rip my brain. Okay. What about you? My fail is really weird. I'll send you a picture so that you can insert it because it has since healed. I don't know if you saw me post this to my Instagram story, but I like woke up in the morning and my pinky literally looked like it had been like smashed in a car door. No, I did not see that. It was crazy. Like black. You've been on Lovu lives all week. Sorry. Sorry, but Sam. Oh, I'm sorry. Your whole life doesn't revolve around my effed up pinky finger. Okay. But oh my gosh, I'm a horrible friend. What happened? I don't know. That is what the interesting fail is. Is that like literally my finger is like black and blue. It didn't hurt at all, which was really bizarre. Um, and I have no idea how it happened. And when did it go away? It just like went away the last couple days. And now you can't see. lasted a couple days though. Yeah. Your pinky was black and blue, only your pinky. That's Well, I kind of You could kind of see like a little bit of a bruise like on my middle finger too, like my upper knuckle a little bit, but it was mainly my pinky. And I have no recollection of how this could have occurred. Huh. Yeah, cuz like to be your pinky like to smash your finger in something. Oh, you remember that, right? That's what I'm saying. Bruises can take a a while to show up. It could take like 12 hours sometimes. Nothing happened the day or night before that you remember? Nope. Kanan just accidentally body slammed you in the middle of the night and you didn't know? Just my Just on my pinky. Just your pinky. The aliens finally abducted me. Just my to be it. Yeah. Uh I have no clue what happened. So yeah, like I said, I'll text you a picture and you can put it on the YouTube video because like literally it was crazy. Like I'm not exaggerating. Like I posted on my story and everyone was like, "Are you okay?" I'm like,"Yeah, I'm fine. And I don't know what happened. I literally don't know what happened. So, it's like, did you fall asleep on it and it bruised you somehow? Are you vitamin deficient and anything? It's a little crazy. Yeah, that's weird. Well, if it happens again, you're going to need to take a visit to the doctor. Sorry. My pinky is getting bruised mysteriously. Imagine. They're like,"Okay, great. Sorry. Just aliens. You're fine. Go to bed." So, so that was my weird fail of the week. I don't know because you know it's like the mysteries of the universe. We'll just add it to the list. Yeah. Yeah. Of the unexplained. So, my We're get We're getting We're over 35. That's what's happening. We're nearing 40. Honestly, weird stuff's just going to start happening probably. That's probably true. Yeah. So, my fave of the week is movies again. So, here is your proof that movies are making a comeback finally. go to the movies. Please do it so that not all of our movie theaters will just close and become a thing of the past. I know. I love them. Um went and saw 28 years later. Yep. And it was so good. I was shocked to find out that you haven't seen any of those movies being a zombie person. That's so crazy to me. Didn't fully know it was more zombies. I know it's rage virus. I get it. It's zombies. Whatever. It's zombies. It's They're all viruses. Yeah. It's literally zombies. like say what you want, but like that's what it is and I will die on that hill. Um, and now I want to watch them for sure. So, it might be like a fall watch. Yeah, that's a good idea. I was thinking I was thinking of doing like a little marathon or whatever. Um, it was great. So, it's been definitely getting a lot of like criticism for sure, but this is all I will say. Well, two things. I'll say two things. I had went in with zero expectation that Aaron Taylor Johnson would not ruin the movie with his acting with his abysmal acting skills. Okay. I was like, "Dude is so pretty, but like literally ruins everything with his attempt at dramatic acting." Okay. For some reason, he was great. Oh, good. So, got some lessons. So, you can't So, you can act, you just don't. No, he's just in a terrified state all the time. So, it was just him. It was just like actually how he is. Um, his real personality. He was great. 10 out of 10 acting for him. I feel like, you know, it that made the movie really good. Um, so I don't know if like you're a diehard like 28, you know, Days Later fan or whatever if you're going to like it as well. like if you're looking at it from like I don't know all the like really specific like cinematic qualities but if you're going to just be entertained and like a good movie then I think you'll probably like it you know if you like those like horror zombie movies or whatever. So yeah fully enjoyed that. So I will say that. So he did not ruin the movie. He was great. The second thing I'll say about it is that the ending was really bizarre and like took a strange turn. So, I won't give any spoilers away, but people are saying like the ending was like a jump scare, but like not in the way that you would expect. Mhm. And I would implore you to perhaps think that maybe it had something to do with like the overall overarching theme of like who has really lost their humanity in this grand scheme of things. Um, and I think that's why the ending was the way that it was because at first it could seem very weird, but then I thought about it for a second and I was like, actually, I feel like it was really clever to end the movie that way. So, I was happy with it. The other movie I went and saw this week was How to Train Your Dragon. A So, is this like a live action? Yes. Okay. I don't know how I've missed all the trailers for it because we are all about that, but um cuz you've seen How to Train Your Dragon, the animated one. We watched the first one and then like the holiday special and we really liked it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The second one is really good, too. But, um yeah, I love the animated ones. This was excellent. Like literally I have zero criticisms about this movie and I guess you know um one of my friends was telling me about how the person who made the movie or I don't know the director whatever like was like I don't want to change a bunch of stuff because everyone loves the animated version so I'm just going to make a liveaction version that's like very true to the original story and that's exactly what it is. Yeah. And so it was amazing, beautiful, like such a good story. And like I love the fact that Gerard Butler like literally plays the dad in the live action cuz he does the voice in the animated version. And just adds a little something that Gerard Butler like dad Viking, you know what I mean? Like it adds a little something for like us adult ladies, too. Um, so yeah, it was great. Highly recommend everyone go watch two mo I mean they were just two great movies. Yeah. I'll go take my girls this weekend. Yeah, go see it. I know. I want to go see it again. Especially because it's like, you know, I feel like it really gave me nostalgia for like those fun fantasy kid movies of like our childhood that they just kind of don't make anymore very often. Um, you know, just those epic like flying scenes where they're up on the dragon for the first time and it was just really cool and like very magical. So I definitely want to I would like to go see it in the movie theater a second time just because it's a experience, you know. Nice. So those are mine. I know it was a good week. It was a good movie week. So Liz, are we ready to give our spoiler-free star review and spice rating for Heat of the Everflame? Yes, I'm ready. All right, hit me with your best shot. Yep. Um, five stars. This was in my opinion like as close to an epic fantasy if there ever was one. U you know what I mean? It like it just had all the things. Um and I feel like if you like reading fantasy, that's who I'd recommend this for. I feel like what's interesting about this series is that I feel like Spark was very like I'd recommend it to everyone, right? Like a good intro. a good intro to romanty fantasy. Anyone could really enjoy it. Glow pretty much the same. Like I feel like it's still Yeah, it was a little bit more complex, but still pretty straight. fastpaced and yeah, Heat was definitely a different level entirely to the point where like I would implore It's kind of almost like if I were to recommend this series to a new uh fantasy reader, I might give them the good old Crescent City disclaimer. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like just be ready for it to really ramp up and there to be a lot of information once you get to book three. Um, but just we have to trust the process because it is book three and there's going to be four in the series. Um, but there is a lot in this book. So, I rated it five stars because the world building, magic system, like the way that the characters are unfolding is all top tier in my opinion. Um, but it is a lot on the brain. So, just know that. Um, and I rated it a two spice. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah, cuz there's definitely, you know, for anyone wondering because I know that, you know, it's kind of the joke in the community is that this is the slow burn of the century. It is indeed the slowb burn of the century. So, just know that for sure. And that once you do get to the spice, which happens very later on in the book, um it is still, in my opinion, at about a two spice. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So, it's not a slow burn to nowhere, guys. So, it's not a slow burn to nowhere. You get somewhere. Mhm. Yep. What about you? So, agreed. Two spice and you guys, five stars. This is a solid five stars for me. The other two were a good four stars until I reread them one day and then they might get bumped up. But yeah, five stars. This is everything that I want in a high fantasy book and it's everything Liz said. She said it perfectly. So, know what you're getting into and um it's worth the the payoff. Like, and there's so much going around. I'll say this. If you don't like fantasy books that wait till the last, you know, 100 pages to give you craziness, then you'll like this book because there's a lot of craziness. Like, it's broken up into three parts, so a lot climaxes and happens in each part. So, it makes it very like um lots going on. So, I enjoyed it though. I did. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It was a definitely a wild ride from start to finish for sure with lots of information. That's why I said it's almost like the Crescent City disclaimer. Like I feel like it might, you know, now that I'm talking this out with you, it might be a good one like Crescent City to reread because it's like the first time you read it, I feel like you're really focused on, you know, what are all the different realms? What are all the different realms powers? what's going on, you know, as far as the political dynamics, who were all the characters because there's lots of characters. Maybe the second time, cuz this was our first time reading it, maybe the second time if you went back and reread it like we did with Crescent City, it would just be like, "Oh, I can focus like just on the plot and what's happening because I already have all that other stuff established in my brain." Um, so as I'm kind of talking this out with you, I'm like, "Okay, I don't know when I would be able to do that, but that might be kind of the way to go in the future." Yeah. Also, um, set aside time. If you're on book three and you haven't started it yet, you're kind of feeling out right now if you should continue. Dedicate your reading to just this book. Don't do what Liz and I did and have, you know, three different books that we have to get done for the podcast or because you feel like, you know, you're a mood reader. be in the mood to read this because just like Crescent City where I would dedicate that time, I didn't dedicate that time with heat because the first two books were simple enough. Like I would be able to read multiple books at the same time. When it came to this and we kept having to stop due to other commitments, it was it made it way more challenging than I think it needed to be. So that would be like my biggest recommendation. Only read this book. you know, depending on your skill of absorbing information. I would recommend physically reading this one. I listened to the audio in this one and that just made it more difficult for me to obtain all the information that I needed cuz there's just so much intric intricacies going on. Like I can't imagine reading or listening to Crescent City for the first time. I would be all over the place. So confused. Yeah. So while I'm not confused, I will say I'm not confused anymore. And that has gone with a lot of after research. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to say it's like a Game of Thrones level like in like like that level, but it's it gives me that kind of vibe a little bit where it's like cuz you have all the different realms that have all their different powers and all their different rulers, but you do have like the one common, you know, story line following DM's journey. So that is different because in Game of Thrones you jump back and forth between so many different story lines. But it would be like I know when I was like even just watching the Game of Thrones show, it was really useful to have like you know the family tree and everything laid out so I could see it on paper and really reference it. I feel like with this book it's nice to have that too. And if you're reading the physical copy or the Kindle copy, you do have access to, you know, the maps, the charts, and that kind of thing. And I think that that would be useful cuz and I think it's the names are all very similar in my brain. They kind of have that linear feeling like a fire feeling. So, it's hard for me to like, okay, who was that guy? Who was this person? Uh, okay. Like that. Yeah. It's not as differentiated in my mind either. And maybe for some people it would be as like let's say to use Acatar as an example, you know, it's very obvious who's in the night court and who's in the spring court and Yeah, exactly. It's not that clear. Yeah. And the realms didn't look as different in my brain, but Yeah. the features. That might also just be because we're not as familiar with this world as we are with that world, you know, and we might get there. We'll probably get there at some point. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so should we get into the spoiler section in this five sentence? I laugh because good luck summary. Oh, fire. Spoilers, guys. Spoilers. Save it to your playlist. Watch it when you're done with the book. All right. This is Liz's Brave New World. Go ahead. Okay. Heat of the Everflame in five sentences or less. Let's go. That was a little motivation. Okay. Thank you. Um, DM wakes up in a rebellion guardian camp after the explosion at the coronation on the island of Curiel, which we find out later was orchestrated by her mother, the now captured leader of the rebellion, where she is being held hostage, drugged with flameroot, and her blood is being stolen by Vance. Luther and Sarai try and fail to rescue her, but she manages to resist the flame route enough overtime to get some of her powers back and attempts her escape on a ship, but continuously is being dragged back to shore when she runs into Taran, Elix, and Luther who help her escape and cross the border into Ignos. One, that was literally the first sentence. It's a lot. It's a big book. Okay. Uh, here they almost get killed by the king and his grivern, but the Grvern seems to like DM and lets them go. However, Taran is gravely injured with god stone until DM unknowingly heals him with her blood that fell into the herbs that she was treating his wound with. She seems to be able to wield the firepower of Ignos, which again alerts the king, who comes to fight them, and during this process, she is stabbed with god stone, but Luther transfers some of his power to her, healing her. And then they escape into Umbrose two. In Umbrose, they meet up with Zaleric, Luther's contact, who helps halfhuman, half descended escape, who arranges passage on a ship for them to leave. But before they can, they are captured by the Umbrose Queen, who shows DM her library, tells her she knows who her father is, and also shares that she knows she will die soon and who her successor will be. But before she can give her the details, DM discovers that Luther is dying from a godstone wound and in a panic calls Sarai to help them escape back to Lumnos after a crazy grivern fight in the sky with the queen of Umbrose three. We have to have to allow it. Yeah, we have to. There's no way. Um, just to clarify it because I know that sentence was kind of confusing. It's the queen of Umbrose who knows that she's going to die soon. she herself will die soon and who her successor is. Okay, made sense to me. Yeah. Okay, just making sure. Uh DM thinks that she heals Luther with a special potion cure, but it's actually her blood again. Once completely healed, they discover that uh Remis is not acknowledging that she is queen because of the incomplete coronation ceremony. So, they leave to rescue her mother and the other prisoners. And in that process, DM unwillingly kills the king of Fortos to save herself, transferring the crown to herself. tries to go back home but is forced out by Reheis and his soldiers. So they escape to Montios where they discover the king has died of natural causes and that DM is the queen there now as well. Four. I don't know how you're going to wrap this up. Not well. One sentence left. They find the rebel camp in Montios where their quote unquote evil leader who DM figures out is actually her biological father of Fiakai and the 10th descended. I put question mark who was a prisoner on Curiel until her explosion helped him escape and they realize that she is the only one who has similar powers to stop him. They team up with the leader of Sofos named Dorelle, who she helps save from a rebel attack and agrees in a blood bargain to kill her dad or lose her magic in exchange for his assistance to help her be coronated. They go back to Curiel where she discovers Dorel has betrayed her and everyone votes against her except for the Queen of Umbrose, who is then killed, transferring her crown to DM. But the other crowns force her into another blood bargain that binds her to the island just like her father and kills anyone who tries to rescue her. And just as everyone leaves her alone, the king of Ignos pops out of nowhere and stabs her through the heart with a godstone blade. Five. The end. Insane. Good job. Holy smokes, man. Holy smokes. Yeah, you got it. you did it. At the end of the day, I think it's like what's important to like pull out is like, as I was telling Ashley earlier, it's basically just a book of her going around to all the different realms and kind of figuring more out about the realms themselves, but then also getting the crowns from many of them. Like that's what this book is on accident. On accident. Yeah. It's like she didn't even want to kill that guy from Fourto, but he just like basically gave her no choice, you know? So, yeah. And oh my gosh. Well, we'll get more into it, but yeah, the queen of the whole the whole plot line with the queen of Umbros was really I felt like well written. Yeah. And we'll get in more into it and hopefully more of this will refresh your memory as we talk about tropes, likes and dislikes and all of that. So, yeah, good job, Liz. Thank you so much for burning the morning oil as I told her and getting that done. Only a slight mental breakdown. It's all worth it. It is worth it. It is worth it like I told Ashley because then when we go and read book four, we can reference like these summaries might not seem very like grammatically they are not written well. Okay. However, as far as just using them as summaries. Yeah. Ooh. Should we start posting our five sentence summaries like written out? No, just written out to embarrass me. No, like on a template like, hey, this isn't perfect, but like you know, it's you go. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe we'll do Yeah, we'll do like a poll maybe on our stories and you guys can let us know if you'd find that useful and we could just do it. Like, why not? I told Liz before starting this, we're going to try this week to post a slide of all the different realms and everything to help break things down. Yeah, definitely before the next book get released. So stay tuned for that. Make sure you're following us on Instagram, besties in the books podcast. Okay, so now that we got that out of the way, Liz, what were three tropes that you loved? Uh, permission to use the f- word. Yes, permission granted. Okay. Enemies to lovers. [ __ ] finally. You know, it deserves that. It deserves that passionate sentence. Yes, we got it, guys. We got it. Yeah. So, that was definitely one um chosen one. Yeah, because I feel like it's just so like we know what's happening, right? It's like she's collecting crowns. Like, we know what's going on. But at the same time, it's still really gratifying every time that happens. I feel like at least for me. Yeah. Um because we still don't really understand the full extent of DM's powers really because we like everything that's going on with her dad's still a little bit of a mystery. Her biod. So chosen one and then unlikely allies going back to the queen of Umbro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so those were my three favorite tropes. What about you? I put unique magic system. Cannot be denied. Lots going on there. Destiny, which is similar to Chosen One, you know. Yeah. She's following that Destiny path. Destiny's Child. Uh she and she saves him. Mhm. She saves Luther. So that was fun. Those are my faves. Oh, poor Luther looking so raggedy there for a while. Collie, I'm fine. Everything's fine. I know. I'm like, dude, give it up. Okay. Okay. What was one trope that you hated? miscommunication. Uh yeah, because it's like call it what you will, but I feel like there was a ton of miscommun miscommunication in this book with, for example, Luther trying to keep his sickness uh a secret from DM with all of the secrets that her mother was keeping from her. I feel like the reason why I'm classifying that as miscommunication and not just like secret keeping is because I feel like I don't like it when there's like a breakdown in communication between two characters because of something like like superficial like that. You know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, exactly. It's like it wasn't like a you know Zaden keeping like freaking war secrets a secret from Violet. It was like, "Dude, you got stabbed with god stone and you might die. Just tell her, you dummy." You know? Yeah. Yeah. Exact. That was that was mine as well. But you said it more eloquently. I put hiding flesh wounds, you know? Because Yeah. Dude, I just wanted to scream for like the whole part two. Like just tell her. We all see it. Like it's obvious you got hurt, too. He's like, "Let's go. I'm good. I'm good." It's just a fresh mood, but less peppy. Like guy, come on. Like, don't like don't be so prideful because she could be saving both him and Taran at the same time. She's freaking Well, Taran was pretty much okay by then. You know what I mean? It's like get get over it. Um, also the whole like lady in his room and then she thinks that he's like hooking up with her. Come on, give me a break. I didn't like that. Yeah, I didn't either. That's what I'm saying. Miscommunication. That's what that is. Yeah. Dude, this guy would literally like Luther. Okay, we'll talk about it a little bit. I guess now is just as good of a time as any. I really enjoy Luther's character a lot. You know, he he's a good guy. Obviously, we like him. He's a well-written character, but sometimes I'm like the stuff he does just kind of gives me a weird like I don't want to say it's a full ick because it's not a full ick, but it is a little bit cuz I'm just like what are you doing? You know what I mean? Yeah. To be perfectly honest, this book he felt a little disjointed to me than the first two book Luther's. Mhm. So maybe it's he felt disjointed, but it's just he's so willing to just like, you know, fall on his knees and gravel before her, but then at the same time he won't like tell her that he has an injury that might kill him at any moment. Yeah. Like make it make sense. I don't know. Also maybe it's like protecting to a fault, you know, trying to protect her feelings like so much so that he like literally will die instead. Like what who does that help though? you like literally no one hurt like Yeah. I just see her warning you. Yeah. I did put another struggling a little bit. Yeah. Struggling. Yeah. With Luther's character specifically a little bit after this book. Like I don't like don't get me wrong like I don't hate him at all. Okay. I just feel like at this point in time he would not be held up at the level of, you know, a hunt or a rowan or a slade to me. like he's not there right now. Um, and he might get there in book four, but right now he's not. I think we're seeing that he is actually not as fully confident as he portrays. Mhm. And he's still young, too. And he's making some he's kind of made some idiot boys making bad decisions there. Yeah. A little bit. Little remains to be seen. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's got a lot on his shoulders, but like we'll see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. We'll keep one eye open on the next book. Yeah. It all hangs in the balance. I did put one other trope that I I hated, but I didn't hate that it was included. I don't know how to describe it. I hated it because like, oh, that sucks. Not because it was bad, not because it's a bad trope. Not because the author made a bad choice. It's just because like, oh, so sad. Betrayal with uh Sofos betraying her. Oh, that sucked. You know, that sucked. I thought that was I thought he was a good one. I did. Or they were a good one. Yeah. Especially because it's like she freaking helped you. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Like you literally would be dead. Like her whole kingdom would be dead if she didn't help you. And she even made this horrible dumb decision to do the blood bargain against her dad and they still betrayed her. So yeah, hated that. But not because it was in there. Hated that it had to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. My hate or my niche micro trope that I actually liked is blood magic. I do enjoy a good blood magic. More so focusing on the fact that her blood Yeah. can heal and is the key to this whole thing. You know what I mean? It's like there's got to be more to that. And so I do enjoy that for sure. I'm curious to see where else that goes. Yeah. I don't know how to say it eloquently, so you know, rephrase it if you will. animals unspoken understanding. So basically with the not dragons, what are they? The griy gys. The griverns like have an understanding with DM and she's able to communicate with them without words or even like brain talk. So well it's like a bond. They have a bond. Yeah. this like unspoken bond and they understand each other like that other grivern looking away you know and not leading the jerk king to her. So she has this way of communicating with all the griverns that she runs across except the one kind of but she have a lot of opportunity. So I love that. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. It's like I wish I could have that. I'm just look at my dog and she knows. I mean they kind of do. Dog animals are very like perceptive. intuitive. Yeah, totally. Yep. Uh, what about your favorite part in this book? DM gaining more crowns. So fun. Like Mario collecting coins. Ding ding. Collect them all. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite part was our little stint in Umbro with the queen. I really enjoyed that part. I really liked her character a lot. I feel like that was definitely a moment where I was pretty upset with DM and Luther for the choices they were making because I was like, here you have this queen who has a wealth of information including your lineage history and like you decide to just freak out and bail. And I get it because it's like Luther's on death's door, but it's like,"Hey man, maybe if you just said something sooner." Y we could have maybe been dealing with this and then we could have had a nice dinner with the queen of Umbro and she could have explained who your father is and we could like be normal. You know what I mean? I'm like why is all this chaos necessary? And like all the signs were there like she lets half mortals be there. you know, they find out that she's a part of that system and harboring and keeping them safe. Like, hello. All the makings and how she's like, oh, she like basically tells DM, which you know, DM's not the most um observant in the moment. I've found that like she's very reactive. Yeah. Um each king or queen knows when their time is coming. they'll know who their, you know, person will be cuz they're nearby as soon as they come nearby. And then she even thinks, "Oh, that kind of happened to me with Ulur, you know, or Uther, whatever his name is." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, and then that happened. So, that must have been what happened. She's right there telling you it's gonna be you. You know, I'm like screaming it. So, yeah, you should have stayed, man. Although on the other on the other hand, I was thinking, well, maybe then she won't like die. Maybe DM would have accidentally had to kill her, but then it happens anyways because Destiny, man, it's gonna happen. So, yeah, that was brutal, though. So, yeah, I was frustrated at how Luther and DM acted, but I liked the Umbrose Queen enough. Yeah. That I really enjoyed that part. I thought it was of all the kingdoms we went to and all the different things that chaotic things that happened in each kingdom, that was definitely my favorite. Yeah. Feel like we gained gleamed the most information there as well. Yeah, totally. Mhm. What about your least favorite part? DM gets stabbed in the heart by Ignos. How do No wonder you guys people are chomping at the bit at Penn to get the next like to get the next book out. I do not know how she's going to go from here. I don't know where she's going to go. I have my theories. Oh, well, we'll talk about that at the end. We will. Yeah, but like you just got in the park. Yeah, but it's like there's so many loose ends right now. It's like, oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Ignous. Someone just needs to take him out. Like, what? How did he slip through the cracks? Like, is he supposed to be gone? Come on. Like, he sucks. Let's get rid of that guy. We got to talk about the god stone, too, in a little bit. And the mountain of rock that I thought was broken. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. What about you? Um, my least favorite part was the short spice scene. Like, okay, let's just discuss. Let's discuss. Okay. I, you know, we've talked about a lot of books on here that we fully enjoy. I do want to say that I've gotten a couple people who've reached out to me who think it's kind of funny that we're covering Ann of Green Gables right now because it seems so like out of our wheelhouse. Um, so but that the reason why I bring this up is because Anna Green Gables is a fivestar read for me. Okay. So it's not that I I'm not someone who requires spice in my books to enjoy them or rate them five stars at all. Yeah. At all. Okay. What I don't like is when you get a slow burn that lasts literally thousands of pages and then the spice scene is like one chapter. Like I want like the payoff from like the Plated Prisoner series where we're getting a solid like 40 pages. Like we're getting like three chapters. We're getting his point of view. We're getting, you know what I mean? Where it's like really paying off after all that time. Not to say that the spice scene wasn't good once we finally got it, but it was like right there at the end. We waited so long and then I just kind of felt like it was like it was good, but then it was like over. Yeah. And I was like, "All right, well, I wanted more than that." So, that to me is my least favorite part of this book because I wish that we had gotten a bit more spice because we deserve it after all this hard work we've put in. Yeah, maybe book four. We'll see. Another reason why it's taking forever to write. Not forever, but taking her longer than people would like cuz she has to help DM come back alive and like get the spice going. Ramp it up. Come back alive. Yeah. I mean, I will say you bring up Plated Prince Learner, though, and I'm on book four now, and there's still not a lot of spice. So, that's book four. But yeah, that's book four. So, I'm saying there's still a chance. Yeah. I mean, cuz I'm for like the main, you know, people. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Mhm. So, but that's what I'm saying is when you get to it, it's everything you could have hoped and dreamed. I think this is just the start. I don't know how though. I don't know how this is gonna I mean, she's literally stranding on an island like uh freaking Pirates of the Caribbean with uh uh Orlando Bloom stuck on the island and she can only visit him once a year. It's not great. It's not looking good. So, what about your favorite character from this? Uh favorite character would be Taran, her bestie. And I love the like love banter and the flirting um between him and Zaric and the like so good. It's so cute. Yeah. That kind of um mean flirtation. I love Yeah. teasing, you know. Yep. I love it. Yeah. It's like do they hate each other or do they love each other? Oh, they love each other. He's just messing with them. Zark is just messing with them so hard. So, it's so funny. I love it. It's cute cuz he falls for it every time. Yeah, I put Zeroric as my favorite character or the Umbrose Queen. They were kind of tied. Yeah. Loved her. I wanted more of her though. And we're too bad. I know. Dead. Too bad. Yeah, I know. When she died, I was bummed for sure. I was like, I really wanted to see that alliance go somewhere really cool. I think you texted me she's kind of like a Mave, but if Mave was actually good, you know? Yeah, exactly. And I mean, we all have our theories about Mave, so that's a whole different discussion. True. But she definitely was that vibe. Mhm. Like putting But putting on a front of this, you know, mean lady for her safety of her people, but actually she's awesome. Yeah. Well, it's like also you kind of have to think obviously there's a lot of misogyny going on in this world. So it's like what does she have to do to maintain this persona to be taken seriously in this world too, you know? So yeah, brings up those kind of questions. Mhm. Uh who so who is your most hated least favorite character in this book? Easy. DM's mom. I don't even know her name. Couldn't stand her. Orly. Orly. Oh great. That lady. This is Bellator. This is Bellator, dude. Unsufferable. I even like her. The discussion they had around the campfire, she's like, I don't like anything about her. So, and I thought I would like her because, you know, at the beginning we find, you know, it's very much DM's perspective of like looking up to her mom, like, oh, she's so secretive in a cool way, you know, and then we find out, uh, she's just a freaking mess and she's so annoying about Luther and like she is annoying withholding information and then like that's some crazy stuff to just drop real quick. Oh yeah, your dad. I like found him in prison and he was dying and then we I fell in love with him and then like had his baby and then he almost killed you. Like I don't know. It was dude and she's just like Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know. Yeah, he was my least favorite character in the last book. You know, I already had a bad taste in my mouth for her a while for a while. Um she's not my least favorite character in this book because I chose Remis instead. Yeah, I mean he sucks all the time. Here's the thing about sucking now. Well, I think the reason why I picked him as my least favorite character now is because he's such a nuisance and he has no magic. So, I'm like, could someone just kill him? Like, I don't understand. Yeah. Like, I get that he's Luther's dad, but like he hates him. So, like, could he and he has no magic? Like, why are we letting him be in charge? Only Dia knows he doesn't have magic now, right? Maybe Luther knows. I mean, that's enough though. I know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, Dan's not going to do it because of her moral standing, but Luther like if he just had like a little accident, you know what I mean? Like, oopsies fell off the cliff. Oopsies. I got pushed. Like, I feel like, you know, unfortunately, this is a high stakes live or die situation. If I had this super annoying like at this point basically mortal person, you know, preventing me, the queen of, you know, how many different realms does she have the crown of now? Five. Like preventing me from going into my castle with my Grvern because you are mad that I wasn't technically coronated. Basically, you're just jealous because you're not the one in charge. Um, I take you out. Maybe that makes me a bad person, but like I feel like I Oh well. Oh well. This isn't the normal. We don't live in this world. We live in that world. And come on. Yeah. It's like, okay, Luther, you'll do anything for me except for like get rid of the one person who's making my life a misery right now. She won't tell him to do it. But he needs to think it over and just do it. Yeah. He's [ __ ] blocking all over the place. I like how we're like, "It's so easy. Just kill your own." Yeah. Like enough's enough. You had tons of time to get over your trauma. Let's go. This will be the final piece for you. Come on. Or put him in like a prison somewhere where nobody can find him at least. If you if lock him in the hole on the lock. Yeah. Seriously, give him some crumpets and be gone with it. Like give him some elven bread to last. Jeez. Let's go. I just Have you seen that really funny video that's floating around right now? That's like name the popular movie by the bread. No, I love it. It's fun. I like So, yeah, that reminded me of it because um that was one of them. Yeah, the Lord of the Rings um what is it called? Like whatever crackers. I don't know. Yeah. So, I did pretty good. I think I guess like four out of five based on the bread. Yeah. I was like that's what's important in the movies. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Okay, what else do we have here? Feminist themes, Liz. Feminist themes. Okay. I feel like we've talked about like so many feminist themes like as we've been going through the series and like all the ones we've already talked about are still so prominent in this book, you know. So, obviously we have um you know, a kind of dismantling of a hierarchy of power. We have um a challenging of essentially like a a mass genocide going on. Um we have uh the one that I put that really stood out to me in this book in particular though was first female queen. Yeah. In certain realms or just kind of like that idea that women can't lead. Um and even though all the evidence proves to the contrary. Mhm. Yeah. Um, so I wrote a quote down about this specifically because I thought it was really interesting. So this is when she's um speaking with the king of Fortos. Okay. Where are the female commanders? I asked. The king flicked me a sour look. Blessed fathers saw fit to make our men fighters and our women healers. Healers don't make commanders. There was oh so much I wanted to say and the fact that his most prized descended were the select few who were neither male nor female and thus carried both sides of the fortose gifts. About the fact that my mother, a healer, was the leader of his greatest enemy, the same group that had bested him on the island. About the fact that this woman, this healer, had just made a king-shaped dent in his fortress walls. But I knew men like him. I'd outsmarted and outmatched them all of my life. They didn't trifle with silly things like logic or reason. They were bullies. and bullies only responded to fear. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that sums to me that summed up like the overall theme of Heat of the Everflame, this particular book. Um because this book is all about her, like we just talked about, going around collecting crowns and what that means when you're a woman in so many different realms taking crowns where historically that wouldn't have been a thing. Yeah, definitely. So that stood out a lot to me for sure. Y that's what I put literal misogyny with the king of four toes as well as others not as literal but they were still there. Yeah. Still undertones. I think the part that gets me is like it's just so mirrored in real life, right? Where it's like just this frustrating you can have and that's why I loved the whole piece about logic. People like this aren't looking at it logically, right? Which is a whole other feminist theme, right? where women are supposed to be more irrational and emotional and men are supposed to be more rational and logical. Okay. Well, if you are being more and I say this facitiously, obviously I don't actually mean that to be true. So if you take that information and apply it to this situation, then logically she's saying, "Okay, well, you have been bested by women time and time again in political uh, you know, scheming, but then also in battle, and you're trying to then turn around and tell us that we can't be fighters, commanders, rulers, generals." It doesn't make logical sense, right? But it's like you can't reason that out with someone who has something so dead set in their mind. So yeah. Yeah. Big feminist themes we appreciate from Pen Cole. She writes them well. Yes, definitely. So let's see. Any particular ways that you wanted to call DM out this time around as ways that she stands out as um you know a strong female main character? Just like you said. I mean, standing up to Fortose in the way that she was able to, you know, and also even with Sofos trying to, you know, she's just she's not just bending over and taking it. She's fighting back as much as she can with her words and trying to get people to be logical. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's hard. Well, and she's trying to get people to to figure out a way to resolve their issues without just going in and killing each other. And it's like that shouldn't be so hard to do, but it is. And so I feel like the only critique I would have at this point about her and I think it might come from just her inexperience and age is like not taking the time to hear out the queen of Umbro because I feel like they had very very similar joint interests and if she would have just pumped the brakes a little bit she could have seen that. Um because I think the queen of Umbrose was a pretty smart lady. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I feel like it's just an overarching theme throughout this whole series. You know, there's lots of different ways to be strong, and DM is really making sure that she's going against what's expected to try to do what's right. Yeah, that could almost be symbolic too for DM, how she was quick to try to get away from the Queen of Umbro, but and easily go to other men in power. It it reminds us that all of us even have that misogyny ingrained into us too that I wonder if we really dissected those chapters to see how she wasn't easily convinced of her and still thought she was out to get her even though she did have all this proof in front of her that they're on the same side and they have the same goals. Mhm. So yeah, interesting. That's a good question to bring up or something like that. Yeah. To kind of think about for sure. Yeah. She was quick to run back to her kingdom where she knew Remis was an a-hole, you know, and what what was she going to gain from there? I don't know. They were they were saying they might have some kind of a cure maybe, but so was so did she. So did Numbro. So why are you quick to leave that who isn't killing you, who is hosting you guys, and isn't showing any red flags. So yeah. Yeah. It's all just like what you know, you know what I mean? And that's the thing that might be part of it, too. The common discourse around the Queen of Umbros, you know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. And not but not taking them a breath to realize, oh, all these things are opposite cuz she does even mention it. Oh, she's supposed to be terrible and kills all the mortals that come into world. Oh, wait. She's actually harboring them. Like, hello. Mhm. Maybe it's a front, you know. Yeah. Well, maybe it's a front and maybe it's also like, you know, that she exhibits a lot of the qualities that, you know, leaders like the king of Fortos would consider to be terrible. And then that's what's going to start becoming the popular discourse around that particular leader. Not unlike DM. Yeah. Like people are talking badly about her too in a lot of different villainizing the queen. Yeah. Exactly. So hey, and she decided Umbro it feels like decided to take that and say, "Okay, you'll fear me then." you know, and using that as a shield to protect her kingdom, which DM might have to learn a thing or two about doing that, you know, and she's trying to not she's trying to pave a new way that's antiviolence, but it it's hard, you know. We are ingrained like we're rooting for Ram to get pushed off a cliff cliff. Regis, what is his name? Regious. Regis filming. Poor guy. What did I do? That's a clip. Hey, what did I do? Just tell about the morning news. Uh, no. Remis. Um, we know we're and even the very first guy in this book, uh, what's his name? The second in command for the, uh, the anti- people. My name just emptied. Are you talking about Vance? Vance. Vance refrigeration. That guy. Like like just stab him. Let him bleed out. He's already injured. You're just going to cut off his arm. I know. Like that's just chopped it off. Like we know I think we've read enough fantasy books though to know it's like that's going to bite you in the butt. He's going to come out even angrier. He's not going to see the mercy in it cuz he is terrible. Yeah. He does really bad. Like Yeah. Sucks really bad. Yeah. But it's, you know, it's showing how she's trying her best to not kill everybody. It's like, guys, figure it out. Yeah. I mean, that's hard. What do you do? bloodthirsty. Yeah. So, do at this point in time, do we still think that Luther is a feminist? Yes. We're just having a hard time with him right now. Yeah. I would say that I I mean, to touch on your point about him not telling her about his wounds, it's like it's like it feels belittling and it feels like you can't handle this information. You're going to spiral and freak out if I tell you I was stabbed. And that makes him anti-feminist in that moment during those times. It's like, how to best describe it? It's like by shielding her from the applicable information, you're not considering her to be like an equal. Yeah. Or smart enough or emotionally intelligent enough. Yeah. Exactly. To handle. He's like, you're not going to be able to handle it. cuz I can't think of any other reason why he would try to shield her from that information other than I don't want her to freak out and spiral, you know? Yeah. Or it's like maybe it's not that deep and he's just like I can handle it myself, but like you're going to die and then what? Yeah. Yeah. Like who are you saving? Because she can either try her best to help you and live with the have to live with the fact that she wasn't able to and that's okay. Or like, oh great, he just keeled over and died and I didn't even know. That's so much worse. It's It's not giving It's like not giving her the opportunity to make her own choices is what it is. Yes. Which is what a lot of people have a problem with with Reand in that popular book series. Not giving her the choice to make her own decisions, to have her own emotions. Yeah. And for her, she would have we know she was able to save him, but like like let's get that done sooner. Yeah. It doesn't need to drag out. So much strife. Yeah. You know, but then it's like, but then he says stuff like, you know, cuz I highlighted a bunch of his quotes to her, you know, don't you dare mistake compassion for lack of courage. Anyone can slaughter their enemies. Hate is easy. It's mercy that requires the greater strength. I'll be damned if I let you believe that beautiful heart of yours is a weakness. Trust your instincts, my queen. Above all else, trust yourself. So then he says stuff like that. So really, it's like I don't want to be so quick to It's like I That's why I like the way that you phrase that he was anti-feminist in that moment. in that moment because people are people and we exist in all the different shades of gray and so I would say femini or Luther is definitely still a feminist for sure but he has his moments you know where he's struggling yeah one mistake doesn't then make you misogynist you know absolutely not absolutely not so yeah overall definitely still empowering and doing his best to help her just you know had a moment of weakness if you will while he was bleeding out so hey which could have been he wasn't thinking clearly which could have been avoided. But maybe the god stone makes you an idiot for a moment, you know, like it's all the god stone is imbued with idiot boys making rash decision magic. Oh, I will say, okay, interestingly, this is not something that I thought about, but then this was something that um you know, the girls over at Romanticy Readers podcast pointed out that was all like literally a light bulb went off. So when DM heals Luther Mhm. she from his near-death experience that time. Yeah. So she thinks that she used that little potion that she got as part of one of her little gifts. I can't remember which kingdom she got it from. When she thinks that she heals Luther with a potion, but she actually heals him with her blood. Right. It's because she went to the statue of Lumnos. Yes. and she cut her hand and made a bargain with the I don't know god goddess I can't remember like you know of luminos to save him she says I'll give you anything if you save him okay so we're kind of thinking at this point like her blood is obviously magic it has healing properties we know that she healed Taran with it I didn't think about the fact that what if that actually was a blood bargain and that Luminos is going to come back later to collect on that. Yeah. And there's a quote here and they didn't mention this um but this is something that I found um that I actually highlighted before. As long as he drew breath, Luther would fight the gods themselves to stay at my side. And I'm like, is that foreshadowing? Like is someone going to be calling in their blood bargain later on in book four? So yeah, now I'm kind of like curious to see if that's going to go somewhere or if maybe we're just like thinking too hard into it. You know what I mean? But it sounds interesting. Mhm. Yeah, it's a possibility. Yeah. So, do you have any other quotes that stood out to you? Well, before we go on, I think now would be a good time to get to the question that we skipped over. Oh. Do you understand why this book is popular? This book series? Yeah, for sure. Book three. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I feel like it just it checks all the boxes that like most people who enjoy reading romanty like, you know, um it has a lot of the tropes that we like. I think the only, you know, the critique that it gets consistently is just that there's not enough spice in it to keep the I think that that's kind of like call it what you will, but I feel like in romantic I think one of the reasons why we tear through these books so quickly is because they're extremely complex plots in a lot of cases, like in this book. But I feel like what kind of pushes us forward are those consistent dopamine hits. And I feel like lots of times that comes from the romance portions. And so I think that that's why lots of times books like this can be critiqued because when you're trying to make it through, you know, whatever 900 pages um of very very complex world building and you know that you don't really have a spicy scene to break it up every two or 300 pages, it's not going to move as quickly cuz it kind of gives you like a breather. Mhm. you know, because it's kind of like a like, okay, let's just relax for a second, hang out here, and then get back into it. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I think that it genuinely like I know for me at least, like does give you like that dopamine hit that you're like, "Okay, we're going, you know, Yeah. It's like here we are. We've gotten to this part. That's what we wanted. Now we move on to the next leg of the journey." Right. Yeah. So, yeah, that's definitely one of the main critiques. I kind of, like I said, I'm on the fence about that because I feel like this was a really well-ritten slowburn. I would have just preferred more spice once we got there. Um, but yeah, I definitely understand why it's popular. I mean, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I think because it's going against what we expect, it helps it be more popular, too. It makes it makes it want to be talked about because so many people don't like DM's choices and she's antiviolence which we're so used to stabby FMC's and she's not. So it gives us something different as fantasy readers for sure. Yeah, I agree. Yep. Yeah. All right, quote time. Let's share a few quotes that stood out to us. Okay, I actually wrote some down. Look at me. Look at me go. I just have to call out the dedication. For all those caught in the flames, remember that the hottest fires forge the strongest swords. Mhm. I love that. That's what I wrote down, too. I'll try to cross that out right out of the gate. Okay, you go. Yep. Uh, and education is the most powerful weapon of them all, said the queen of Umbro with the library and all of the saved books from all of the pages. Oh, I don't let anybody in here. Here you go. Here's the key. Go whenever you want. I'm not hiding anything. Also, okay, can we talk about that for a second? I love that like she has a bunch of essentially band literature, right? She has the archives of the ages and she has like the last remaining toms and Luther and DM are like, "Well, this is we're going to what when we're going to start doing it. Okay. You have like one and a half days. Yeah. To try your absolute best to use your photographic memory to read as many things as you can and you're like or we could use this time to finally do it. Finally. I don't know. I'm like you waited this long. Like I don't know. That definitely was something that was weird to me. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I loved this. Give it time. He said his voice returning to normal. You will remake this world. You will be the voice they never had and the sword they were never allowed to wield. And then my last one that I wrote down is a very big overarching theme for the whole series. Hate is easy. It's mercy that requires greater strength. Mhm. Yeah. So that feels like the mantra that she lives by. Yeah. You know, absolutely. Uh just a short one. Don't mistake the pain of change for failure. Yep. Um, okay. Then I had to write down a couple, you know, the whole like um I will love you until this world is a like what does what does Rowan say? I'll love you until this world is a forgotten whisper of dust between the stars or something like that. Okay. Like that will go down in history as like one of the best lines in any book I think ever by MMC, right? But I wrote down a couple of Luther's like prize moments for sure. Um, it is not just my body that craves you DM. It is my heart. He clutched at his chest. My scarred, ruined scrap of a soul. Your smiles, your affection, the way you look at me, the way you see me, that is my lifeblood. I would sooner wither without food or water. Sink into the sea until my lungs burst. Abandon my magic and let my godhood burn me alive from within, then endure one more day of life without you in it. Oo, what drama. I love it. Love it. I mean, come on. You know, like, how would you not love that? Oh, this was good because this is more of like one of those feminist themes. If you know people are dying and you have the power to stop it, but you look away, that blood is on your hands, too. We kind of already briefly talked about the spice, or I guess we've talked about it kind of a lot depending how you look at it. So, two spice, I think I still feel pretty strongly about that. It was good, but I could have used more. How did you feel? Do were you content with it or do you feel like what do you think? I don't care about spice. So, yeah, that's kind of what I thought, but I just wanted to know. I'm happy for you guys, but then sorry it wasn't enough. You know what I mean? Like I'm glad we're finally past the like I don't want to tell her that I love her. Like I don't want to tell him because I don't know if he's ready. Like like that angsty thing. I'm glad we're over that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's always a happy moment for me. Like okay, we we're all upfront about our feelings now. Great. Perfect. I know. When are we just when are we just going to find out like what's going on with them? You know what I mean? Like come on. What's Faded Maids? What's going on? Hello. Hello. Uh obviously we'll be reading the sequel. There's only one left as far as we know. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Um you know I would definitely read it even if we weren't doing it for the podcast. What about you? Yeah. Same same. Mhm. And then we already talked about the audio book if you guys missed it um in the last one. You know, we both uh jump to talk about it enough for this one. Oh, that's right. We didn't. I totally forgot. Okay. Okay. So, first of all, we'll say this. We jumped back and forth between, you know, Kindle and audiobook. Both of us did. Um I think the only one that I purely read on Kindle was just book one. And I physically read it. Yeah. My actual physical book. Yep. Um, and we love the female audiobook narrator. She's great. She up until book three, 90% of the way through or whatever, did all of the audiobook narrating herself. Um, Uhhuh. It was just her and she did all the voices and it was great. Well, we got a glimpse of Luther's POV in book three. So, what did what did you think, Ashley? I'm sitting there cooking, casually listening. Everything's going fine. all of a sudden jump scared to Luther's voice, which listen, it's not a bad voice. So, I want to clarify because I had a voice memo Liz immediately. It's that it is not at all what I expected for Luther. Okay? So, user discretion. I expected this gruff, rough, deep, you know, man voice. And it was medium deep. Medium deep, I would say. Yeah. And very British. And again, great voice. I definitely think it was kind of like um you know Hook's voice or whatever in Hooked by Emily McIntyre, which isn't a bad voice. It just was not at all what I was expecting. So, it's freaking me out. It took me out of the story. Personal preference, I guess. But I do remember DM saying something about their fancy way of speaking in the first book. So, I understand why the British um uh what's it called? Accent was chosen. it just the gruffiness for me. So, and I was also really looking forward to his voice. I know. So, when it didn't click the same, I was disappointed and it took me out. But oh well, what are you going to do? So, my critique is I was really look looking forward to the dual narration as well because when I downloaded book three, I was like, "Oh, there's two names on this one. Interesting. Interesting." you know. Um, but as I said before, I think we got one chapter in his POV, maybe like it was like very short, very like barely anything. So, I was a little disappointed in that. I would have liked more. I was geared up and ready to be in Cringe City because of Ashley's voice memo. And I was like,"Oh, no. I'm afraid, but now I'm curious, so I have to listen." You know, I was like, "Should I just read this part on Kindle so it doesn't get ruined for me?" I loved his voice. So, we have very opposite opinions here. I I uh I think voice memo or texted Ashley and I was like I don't even remember what I said, but I was like, Luther's voice. I like it. Yeah, exactly. I like it. It's really good. Like, it's hot af. So, whatever. You know, it's like everyone's so different. So, you I'm like, so basically at the end of this review, you now know nothing. It might be good or not. Exactly. Audio book. Sure. I mean honestly still I would choose to read it you know because of how much information is there. Um and I probably I might have helped you with going into listening because I over like underhyped it so much or something like opposite effect where the bar is low now so you're thinking it's going to be like you know like leprechaun and it's you know just normal just normal dude. Um so you know you're welcome. Yeah it was great. I really enjoyed it. I would have liked and I was very emotionally responding to the jump scare that I had cuz you know when you're casually listening and you're not expecting like that change of point of view all of a sudden. Whoa. Hey, whiplash. Yeah. So fun. I mean the audio book I would definitely give five out of five stars though. Like Yeah. Still five stars as far as audio book quality goes. Yeah. All right. So what about reviews just from the people? But we'll just start with some Goodreads reviews. So, I have some highs and some lows here. Let me see. Okay, so it looks like there are It gets an average of a 4.26. So, that's a pretty high rating on Goodreads. Yeah. Um, with about 128,000 ratings, which again is pretty low in my opinion as far as just like numbers, you know what I mean? Like I was expecting to see more than that with how like hyped this book is, but give it time. Give it time. Okay. So, we'll just start with the lows. I found some You guys know I love my Quippy oneliners. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Especially because the majority of low reviews, there were very few one stars. I will say that. Very few one stars. Most of the one stars were DNFS. And I'm done reading off one star DNFS cuz no, just no. Okay. So, M says, "One star. Why was this over a thousand pages long? And how many times in a thousand pages can I roll my eyes? Lynn gives it one star. She says, "If you would like to read a book where the FMC is pathologically incapable of character growth and the MMC is a one-dimensional simp, this is the book for you." Yeah. Uh, Eater One Star says, "If that longass Zoom meeting that could have been an email was a book." Oh no. Oh no. I thought it was pretty cool that when I pulled it up on Goodreads, it shows you, you know, like who you're friends with and who's reviewed it. We actually had quite a few friends who had reviewed it, so I thought that was pretty neat. Yeah. Um, so, uh, Logan over at the Starorn Reader, she gave it a five stars. She said, "I am once again begging you all to read this series. I don't really know how to write a loved review on this one without just straight up word vomiting the whole story because it was just so good. Things are definitely heating up, if you catch my drift. War is coming and it is inevitable and this entire book from start to finish did not slow down. If you love magic wielding, snarky badass FMC's who wants her people to be united instead of bloodshed and innocence dying, a newfound family makes up her court, and an MMC who worships the ground she walks on, intense emotional banter, witty, literally every emotion you can feel in in a book. Give this series a try. I will not shut up about it. Um, so I shortened that a little bit, but you get the gist. She loved it, which I love. Nice. Heather, who you know is in book club. Um, fantasy with me. She rated it five stars. What do you mean there's no release date for the next book yet? Yeah. Um, Corey rated it five stars. She just said WTF pen. Yeah. Like, yep. Where do we go? Tub, I know. Literally, we have so much to wrap up. Tuba reads five stars. I enjoyed this book a lot more than the first two books. There are still some things that annoy me, but I was so deeply invested by the end and that cliffhanger effed me up bad. If I could, I'd go back in time and not start the series until it was finished, which I know a lot of people feel that kind of sentiment towards books like these, for sure. Mhm. Um, but yeah, so very well-rounded. What did you find on Audible? Anything interesting? No echo chambers for me. Nobody's mentioning the MMC's voice, so I guess I'm the weird one. Uh, I mean, I liked it. I liked it. Yeah. So, I guess I'm a lone wolf in this boat. Okay. So, let me know though if anybody else had a jump scare. DM me, please. Let us know. You know, with this, there's so much going on that like I just really don't want to end up in like an Onyx Storm situation. So, I'm like, literally, please just if it even takes another two years for this book to come out, it wouldn't even bother me. I would just be happy that it's like the finished product that she really wants. I mean, Raven Kennedy did that with Plated Prisoner where we were all expecting the final book to come out and she just came out and said, "There's so much going on. I have to release this in two different books. So, it's actually going to be a whole another year before the ending comes out." And like I am so glad she did that because it was perfect when I read Gold Finch. You know what I mean? So it's like that's what I want to happen here. Yeah. In a world of Netflixes dropping the entire series at once, we need to remember that that's not normal as far as art goes, you know, and especially not something of this level. Yeah. Art of good caliber can take time. Not to say you can't pump it out cuz you can. Sometimes it just flows out and it's easy, but sometimes it doesn't and you want to make sure because yeah, our everybody knows our experience with the Fourth Wing series took a turn. You know, it seemed rushed for the last two books that came out and it would have been so much better, I think, if more time. Obviously, people love it. So, we're in the side that didn't, but uh we're okay with it taking time or else because you cuz if the author feels the pressure, then it will be rushed and that's what it feels like that the pressure and the the heat is on, you know, no pun intended. And I know for me, I shut down if that happens. Like I then then if I have all this pressure mounting over me, it's like, okay, now I'm just going to go take a nap. I can't handle this stress. And it creatively I would be stunted if I had all these expectations now thrown at me. You know, she went viral and meeting all those expectations while staying true to the story is going to be difficult to navigate through. And it's just a different layer. So she might have been ready to do it and then oh no, I got a lot of pressure now, you know, to be make this successful and check off everybody's boxes without disappointing. So, we need to take a deep breath and know that we started this series before it was finished and it's going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So, do you have any last words or thoughts or theories or predictions? For last words and then we'll do theories and predictions because that doesn't make any sense. But no, um I want to talk a second about I don't understand how she essentially destroyed the it's not the god stone, but what's the like mountain that they put she put her hand on and her blood destroyed the stone that you know I don't remember the names of everything. So she did that but then they went back to it for her coronation and it's fine. I'm a little confused on that. Well, it was the god stone that exploded when she touched it during the coronation at the end of book two, right? So, but then they went back to it at book three when they were giving her her crown. Yeah, they went back to like the island. I don't know if they were necessarily like at the stone itself. Okay. I don't know. Now that you bring that up, I'm kind of interested too because it seemed kind of like an integral part of that whole like uh ceremony ritual process. That's like an unanswered question that I have more so. Yeah. Maybe it's just like a pile of rocks now and that's okay, you know? I don't know. It's fine. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like that's something that I missed too. That's interesting because I didn't really think about that, but maybe it's not vital that it just be in one big piece. I don't know. Yeah. Little confused questions. Maybe we'll find out in the next one. Yeah. Do you have any other unanswered questions with that? I mean, you know, I don't have any unanswered questions that aren't supposed to be unanswered right now. You know what I mean? I think that it's all just kind of the same stuff. I'm still curious about those visions that she has and now, you know, cuz the sword that she got, wasn't it like the sword that she saw in the vision she had of her and Luther? Okay. What's that about, guys? I need to know because we know that we love a good sword imbued with magic. What is the connection with this sword? I think that that was like the one thing that was kind of like tugging on my brain, but I know we're not supposed to know yet. So, yeah. And the battlefield, especially since she's so antiviolence. What is that about? Like how I don't know how she's going to do this. I don't know how she's going to do book four. I don't I know. I don't me either. But yeah, I'd say, you know, other than the usual questions like where are things going with her dad? Where are things going with Luther, etc. You know, how is she going to cuz at this point it's kind of like, is she just going to take the crowns from every single realm and become essentially that would just make you the dictator now? You know what I mean? So, that's not really necessarily very good and I think goes against a lot of her like real core belief system. Yeah. Uh and so I'm kind of wondering how they're going to deal with that too. Like would she maybe make it a democracy? I don't know. Like, so yeah, it's just questions like that that I'm curious about, but we're just it's not something that's keeping me up at night because I don't feel like it's necessarily unresolved unintentionally. Yeah. So, with that said, yeah, let's talk theories and predictions. So, theories um is her real father, which his name is what again? Of that was pretty close. Oopai. Is he an original like god that came down or is he a descended? Like maybe the immediate descended. Yeah. See, that's been bugging me since the second he stepped onto the scene. Yeah. Liz was all confused about it and was asking for clarification. I'm like,"No, I don't think we know like exactly. It's purposely ambiguous." My guess, my theory is that he is an original god because they had said that that kingdom um which is o Orius Orus Orus the 10th realm um I know I wrote it here down somewhere and now I can't remember what it is. So they said he was the only one that didn't take a lover, therefore didn't have a descended. Mhm. So he has to be actually now that I'm saying it out loud if his if that that lord whatever you call him god goddess if he didn't take a lover he is that guy how cuz how could be he be a descended if that guy didn't take a lover like the other ones did. Yeah. No makes sense like just yeah logically. And then he obviously makes a baby with orally and that is DM. So maybe she's just that powerful because she's literally like I feel like with all the other descended, aren't we dealing with generations upon generations upon generations of descended oftentimes mixed with humans as well? Um but if this is the case, then that would mean that DM is literally a direct daughter. Yes. Of an original god, which would explain why she's so powerful. And we also know that they tried through eugenics to snuff out any half breeds as they call them, the half mortals, because they said it would dilute their powers. But we know that some of the most powerful descended we are finding out are half mortal, such as Luther, such as DM, such as um even that one guy, he's very powerful as well. Like he could literally hear people through walls. um you know uh Zelaric. So all these people they're finding out. So cuz you had a question about well how is she more powerful than her dad? And I think it's because she's half mortal. So that makes sense. Yeah. Now talking it out. He has to be the original god. And I think that you know they feared him. I don't exactly know why um they put him in that cell, but they were worried because he didn't take a lover that he was going to try to take over all the kingdoms. Yeah. I was going to say my inclination would be because he can wield the magic of all the kingdoms. Yeah. Just like she can. And they I mean that must have freaked them out because that makes him inherently more powerful than them. And if you don't have a lover, you can't be manipulated, you know. You know, so was he is he misunderstood? You know, it sounds like that. That's my theory. That's my theory. He was misunderstood and then trapped in this freaking hole as you call it for like ever, centuries and centuries and centuries. You know, you get a little cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs down there, you know? And then you're going to be out for blood for real. Literally. Yeah. So, like I mean that would be cuz it's like history repeating itself cuz look at what's happening with DM. Yeah. She even says like the worst that could happen is that I get trapped on this island and I turn into my father. Yeah. And it's because now she's being kept from her love, you know. Yeah, exactly. So, my theory is that Ofia is not actually evil. Yeah, agreed. Um, that's why when I did my five sentence summary, I said evil. Um because yeah, it's like uh if you were locked in a prison cell underground on an island with no one for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, you'd probably want some revenge once you popped out of there, too. You know what I mean? Yep. Um especially if he was wrongfully imprisoned because what did we find out when she goes to the island for her coronation and everyone turns on her except for Umbrose is we found out it's all just a political conspiracy. Everyone just wants to keep the status quo. No one wants to actually improve anything. They just want to keep their power. Yeah. And so maybe he was challenging that as DM is doing now. Well, because if he's an original god, they never wanted it to be like this. We have that come up several times. They wanted to they were supposed to be protectors of the mortals and intermingle. They were not supposed to cause this segregation. And I think what probably happened with the intermingling is they became more powerful than the gods or the direct descendants. So they needed to snuff that out before they got overtaken. Yeah. Corruption. Totally. Corruption at its finest. So hopefully my theory is something with her blood. She'll be able to break the what how they bound her to it. She's so much more powerful than all of these things. And we know she has blood magic and all these different types of magic. So, she should be able to get out of this situation, you know. Yeah. There's a theory that Fantasy Fan Girls actually posted on like a story that I thought was interesting about how she I think they were alluding to how she might be able to get out of the situation that in the library after, you know, their fun time together, he actually gave his blood oath or whatever it's called in this world, like a faded accept it. He accepted the bond secretly where he was saying it in his head and he cuz he accidentally like falls and slices himself open. So that's giving the blood. So he accepted his side of the bargain. And then in the final scene, I would need to reread it. I'm going off of what they said. In the final scene, in the final moment, right before she gets stabbed, she's watching him fly away. She's kind of saying these profound words about giving her life and accepting his. And then she gets stabbed in the heart, which is the same spot that he has a scar, too. Yeah. So, there's their there's theory is, and I kind of agree with that, is maybe something with having that bond be in place, maybe somehow that'll save her or something like that or or make it to where so he can come back or something like that cuz there there are two halves making a hole. So if she has to be there, he's able to come back and he probably gets desperate and risks his life. Maybe we'll see, you know, and finds out he can. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he probably could see it happening or feel it happening and say,"Fuck it." Turn right back around and then find out he can be there and then hopefully save her, you know? That's a good I feel like that's a good theory for sure. Yeah. So, we'll see. We'll see. I feel like Okay, so my theory would be that Okay, so I wasn't sure how she was going to get off the island. I like that theory, though. That makes sense to me. Yeah. You know, that they're obviously they've got some kind of connection. They're faded mates, whatever. And that makes it to where he's immune from, you know, getting killed if he comes onto the island. That makes sense for sure. Yeah. I would like to see her and her bio dad Yeah. hook hook up to rule, not maybe rule together, but fight this war together. Yeah. With a joint interest. Like I want her to like figure out that he actually was essentially persecuted for his belief system and not wanting this to go down the way it did. So that's why they locked him up cuz they're corrupt. Yeah. Um she's like, "Okay, yeah, they did the same thing to me. Maybe this is something that needs to change." Yeah, they end up working together to some degree, but then because of her blood oath, she ends up having to kill him even though now they're on the same side. And it's a very dramatic. Yeah. I'm sure it's going to be like a I've lived. I need to go. Like I've lived long enough. Yeah. He like he murders himself almost like for the sake of the greater good. Yeah. I feel like that would be something that would make sense to me and that would make for a very dramatic Yeah. you know, turn of events. Um, but I'm hoping they don't remain enemies for too long because I think that they have a common interest for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Just they need to just, you know, go to some counseling and some therapy. Go to some family family family therapy hour. Yeah, for sure. So, any other theories or predictions or do you feel like that's about covers it? That about covers it. That's all that I got. That's all that I got. So, okay. Smasher Pastime. Ding ding ding ding. Let's go. Unhinged. Smasher pastime. Well, hey, I just have to know because we've been talking about him so much. My smasher pass was Ofia Kai. Smash. No pass. M. Okay. I'm undecided right now because you have to decide with the information you have. Okay. Cuz I first picture, you know, like is like the guy from Aladdin that's in the prison. That's not him. That's not him. And then I picture like this big brute like the guy in Mulan. The like the evil guy. Uhhuh. Yeah. So right now it's a pass, but we'll see. Interesting. See, I picture freaking what's his name from Lord of the Rings? Hot hot, tall blondie. What's his name? Oh, it's gonna drive me crazy. Which one? Which one? Thanduel. How do you say his name? I don't. This guy. Lee Pace with the eyebrows. Yeah, that's how I picture her dad. Oh, interesting. Totally different than what I pictured. Yeah. I'm like, he is well cuz he's like I mean essentially probably immortal or as close to immortal as possible. So why would he look decrepit? No. Yeah, he wouldn't. It's just my own brain. No, but even the second vision that I have of him isn't right for me. So, you know, Well, he's a smash for me right now. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Mhm. He needs to deal with some trauma first and then it might change for me. He's a little quick to stab right now. Although, he was coming around to her. He was He was soft for his daughter. So that's nice. Well, yeah, I was going to say he gave her the mark so that she couldn't be harmed. Yeah. So, so maybe maybe check back next book. See if I change my mind. Okay. For me, I have a very unhinged one for you that has nothing to do with any of this. So, okay. Finding Nemo. And you might have to look this up. The scarred fish in the fish tank. And he has a very deep and gruff voice and he's scarred on the face. Yeah, I don't remember him at all cuz it's been about 10,000 years since. It's definitely a hear me out cake type of dude. So, it's a smash for me. He's almost he's very salty and grumpy from Finding Nemo. You said scarredfish Finding Nemo. You guys know that are watching, you know. Yeah. No, no, no. I recognize him. He's like the black and yellow guy. Yeah. This guy. Yeah. He's like a naysayer and he's like, "We got to get out of here." Yeah. Smash. For sure. If I was a fish. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Fish. Fish it up. Yeah, he's got like a scar across his eye. Obviously, we're a sucker for a guy with a freaking scar across his eye, Luther. See, it was somewhat tied in. Yes. Subconsciously scars. Here's a fish with a scar. How about that? How about that? Yep. Well, here we are. That that's crazy to me that like literally we've now covered Spark, Glow, and Heat of the Everflame and now we're just going to be waiting on book four and we'll cover that whenever it comes out. Yeah, we did it. And an interview and an interview. That's so exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for joining us in this ride, this fiery fiery ride. We appreciate your time that you took out of your day and your book to come and join us today. Make sure to leave a comment either on Spotify now or YouTube letting us know what do we want to know. Let's leave them a question for those that stayed at the end. I don't know any theories. Yeah, leave us a comment of your theories. If you can't think of a theory, leave us a flame emoji. Why not? Then we'll know. We'll know the real ones who stayed till the end. Thank you guys again so much for watching. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to listen to your favorite podcast, including YouTube. And we're on Instagram and Tik Tok at besties in the book club. No, besties in the books podcast. Besties in the book club at Fable on Fable. But there you go. All right, guys. Thank you so much and we'll see you next Tuesday. Tuesday. Bye.

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Ashley Ellix

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Liz Wilson

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