Ep 80 WHY YOU NEED TO READ the Haven Ever After Book Series this fall!! | Author Interview w/ Hazel Mack

Today we have a very exciting and mostly spoiler free author interview episode for you! We’re chatting with independently published monster romcom, paranormal romance author Hazel Mack to celebrate the spooky season and to get us all in the Halloween mood! We’ll be discussing all things Haven Ever After, the monster romance series that unexpectedly got us into the genre with book 1: Getting it on With Gargoyles, and it’s the series we describe as “Halloweentown for adults” that we’ve been screaming at everyone to read!

Hazel is the self published author of the lighthearted “Gilmore Girls-ish” monster rom com series Haven Ever After, and also writes omegaverse and dark shifter paranormal romance under the name Anna Fury. She’s a North Carolina native, fluent in snark and sarcasm, tiki decor, and is a phallic plant aficionado. She writes any time she has a free moment because the voices in her head wait for no one! When she’s not writing, Hazel loves to hike, bike, and spend time with her Mr. Right, seven year old tornado, and two lovely pit bulls. 

Stick around for an author fave and fail; find out what spicy monster love story shenanigans you’ll be getting into when you pick up any of the Haven Ever After Series, what other new series is on the horizon, who Hazel would smash or pass, and get to know the author behind the story! 

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Shop the Haven Ever After Series | * https://amzn.to/4gXbT5V  

Check out on Instagram:

Hazel Mack | https://www.instagram.com/hazelmackauthor?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Anna Fury | https://www.instagram.com/annafuryauthor?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Check out these author interviews? ⬇️

Penn Cole talks with us about Strong Female Characters, Feminist Themes, and her debut bestselling Spark of the Everflame Series! https://youtu.be/7ukNImyoObw?si=7C3Y9kOUMN4hfcKb

We interviewed Callie Hart all about her NYT Bestseller Quicksilver! Watch it here! https://youtu.be/CED5s7qDBdQ?si=8xtIRO1IzX6Rsld4

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Besties and the Books
• 2:29 About Hazel Mack and Haven Ever After
• 3:38 Introducing Author Hazel Mack
• 6:15 Fav and Fail Writing Haven Ever After Book Series
• 11:00 Q & A with Hazel Mack
• 1:03:30 Unhinged Smash or Pass

Transcript

0:00

And guess what? She converted me. Okay. She writes books with guys on the front with no shirts, but they have wings and they're like really really happy. I'm like ghoul Walton Gogggins from Fallout. Just like when I tell people when I you know the name of the books are always like what now?[Music] Hey everyone, I'm Ashley. And I'm Liz. And this is the Besties in the Books podcast. And we have a very special guest for you guys today. We are going to be talking to our indie published monster romcom paranormal romance author, Hazel Mack. One of our favorites for fall. I know. I'm so so so excited. Um, yeah, we're going to be discussing, you know, the the series I feel like we've been talking about and telling you guys all to read since last year, Haven Ever After. Literally, guys, it's like it was unexpected, but we read Getting It On with Gargoyles. If you guys have been around here for a while, um, and it totally sucked us in. We were converted. We are monster romance lovers now. Yep. 100%. 100%. Um, you know, the way that Ashley started describing it, and I completely agree, it's like Halloween Town for adults. And so, are you a fall girl? Are you a Halloween girl? Like, please just start reading these. Yeah. Um, we do want to let you guys know today's episode will be mostly spoiler-free. If we do have any little spoilers, we'll make sure to let you guys know ahead of time. But we really want you to be able to get a feel for, you know, what the Haven Ever After series really is, a little behind the scenes about Hazel Mack as an author, what inspired this series, maybe what other works she's got coming down the pipeline, you know. Um, but before we get into this interview, we just wanted to say thank you so much for being here. Like seriously, thank you guys so much for taking time out of your day and your book to hear more about this Haven Ever After series and this wonderful author. And make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to list your favorite podcast, including YouTube or Besties in the Books podcast everywhere. And make sure you are following Hazel Mack over on Instagram, Hazelmack Author. That way you get all the teasers, maybe some not safe for work artwork that you get to see. It's like such a fun time over there. So definitely check her out. I agree. I know. I love that it's like very upto-date social media, too, because I feel like if I want to know what's going on, I can always just go check it and see and see the art, which is one of my favorite things about this series that we get to know what all the characters look like. It's so fun. Yeah. So, before we officially bring Hazel on, you guys know how we do this. We like to give a brief introduction um just to let you guys know a little bit about her. So, Hazel is a self-published author of the light-hearted monster romcom series Haven Ever After, as we were just talking about, but she also writes Omega verse and Dark Shifter paranormal romance under the name Anna Fury. So, I'm I'm preparing in the future to go down that rabbit hole as well. I'm excited about that. Um, she is a North Carolina native, fluent in snark and sarcasm, tiki decor, and is a phallic plant afficionado. She writes anytime she has a free moment because the voices in her head wait for no one. When she's not writing, Hazel loves to hike, bike, and spend time with her Mr. Wright, seven-year-old tornado, and two lovely pit bulls. Welcome, Hazel Mac. Welcome, welcome. So excited to be here. Thanks for having me on. Thank you for coming on. We're so excited to talk to you guys. We like seriously any chance anybody is like,"Oh, I like Halloween. Oh, have you read this?" like, you know, we're just trying to get all the people in cuz it is such a good time. We love your writing. Yeah. So much. Oh my god. I just have to say too, the other day I had a client come in who told me cuz at her last eyebrow appointment I had told her about your series and um she came into her next eyebrow appointment, so a month later, and she was like, "I read the first five books." And I'm like, "I love that so much." Yes. Yes. Yeah. My world domination plan is working. And once you pop, the fun don't stop. baby. She's keeping them coming, so don't worry. Let's put you on the spot by first addressing a little elephant gargoyle in the room. Okay, so did you know that how we found out about your Haven Ever After series? I'm guessing that you fell victim to one of my reels about troll whip. Or is it even worse? That's great. Is it even worse than that? Oh, no, it's not. It's not. It's silly. It's really silly. So Liz and I did like a challenge for each other. I have a really weird thing uh dislike for tales. It's been like a thing since I read Cruel Prince. Like if you know, you know. Um so we kind of challenged each other to find like books that would make us ick. So this is a good story obviously because you know hello we're down this rabbit hole now. So she had discovered Getting on with Gargoyles cuz if you haven't read it yet, it does involve some tales. And guess what? She converted me. Okay, so here we are. So, we want to thank you because what a time, what a fun time this is and it's led us down this wonderful path into Haven Ever After and beyond. And beyond. Well, I just love that I was like basically I was just on Kindle Unlimited and I'm like searching. I'm like, "Okay, where can I find some good tail action cuz like this is really going to freak Ashley out and I'm going to just like love it so much, you know?" And um so yeah, so I found Getting It On with Gargoyles and I was like, we knew nothing about it going into it at all. Like literally nothing. And uh it ended up being a fivestar read for both of us and we were like, well that's great. Yeah. Cracking me up a little bit thinking about you like searching for romance and tales. Yeah. So so niche and you fulfilled that role so well. So good. Yeah. It was perfect. Yep. So, what we always like to kick off every one of our episodes with is a fave and fail of the week. But when we have an author on here, we like to ask you what your basically what was the best and worst part about writing this series. So, what was a fave and a fail about writing Haven Ever After? A fave and a fail. It's funny because when I first started writing this series, I actually didn't tell anybody and I had already published a bunch of books, but I was like, I just want to go. I had written a lot of darker books and I thought I just want to write something that's super light-hearted, more like Ruby Dixonsesque because I think of her as like the queen of romance and probably also because she's amazing but one of the first romance books I ever read. And um and so I I started writing and I was like I got to come up with some wild names for this. And in real life I'm a very like punny per I love a good pun. I like puns all day long. And so I was like, I'm just gonna do like the craziest, dumbest, wildest title I can think of. And and so getting involved with Gar Girls popped into my brain. And then I was like, okay, but if I want to write a bunch of these book, I'm just going to assume that I would need like multiple titles. You know, I I tend to write longer series. So I'm like, can I come up with like, I don't know, five or six titles that all are kind of related to like relations, like getting it on and like making, you know. Um, and so anyways, I think that has been probably like one of my favorite parts of it is just like when I tell people what I you know the name of the books are always like what now? But I just really get a like as a Leo first daughter type a lady. I it just I get a kick out of people being like you're you're doing what? Um yeah, I love that. So that's probably like a fa a fail. Uh what's a good that's a good fail. It's interesting because I don't know if I would totally consider this a fail. This is a little bit of a spoiler, but there is a very hated villainous in the series. Y'all probably know who I'm talking about. And when I got to the last book, book eight, um I had a lot of people who were like, "She's getting her comeuppants, right? Like, you're not going to leave the series without the comeuppants." And it's funny because this is a cozy series. It's pretty sweet. Like, there's, you know, there's some drama, but it's almost never between the characters and it's not a super violent like bloody series or anything. Um, and then I got to the end of book eight and I wrapped up that character kind of like arc, you know, in sort of like a as light-hearted of a way as I could for it to wrap up because that's kind of the vibes of the series. And the number of people I have had message me like, "We wanted blood, we wanted, we wanted like to see her go down." Like is there I have had probably twice a week at least somebody messages me like is there an alternate ending where we get to see her head get ripped off or like you know does that ex like if you haven't written it could you write it like put it on your freebies page and so I don't really consider it a fail because I think it would have been weird to end the series with like and then her head splashed across the pavement like it's not that kind of book but um but like maybe a little bit of a fail that like I debated you know How how much do I want to go into that here? Um and so anyway, yeah, that's probably one thing where I'm like, oh, could I should I do like a version where something more drastic happens? I don't know. It would have felt like out of left field to me, but that's probably a good fail. Yeah. A different a different tone I feel like cuz I feel like one of the reasons why I love Yeah. like reading the series is because it's like I want to feel I want to get in that cozy fall mode and you know it's like yeah the cutthroat kind of like intense bloody fantasy is not really like what I'm looking for in that moment right but hey it's you know it's all up to you if you ever did want to write an alternate ending you could you know it's just so funny I feel like I need to put like a little disclaimer at the back that's like if You want to see somebody's head rolling across the floor? Click here for the alter alternative chapter. Oh my god. And people would read it. I think people there are people who would be like, "Yes, yes, Gibby. She deserved it." You know, that's so funny. I know. Isn't that wild? We always say that the fails around here are not really fails anyway. It's just, you know, it's just things that like could have gone differently. Most of the time they end up being a, you know, fave anyways at the end of the day. Yeah. I think it's I mean I I definitely would not go back and change it. I just always think it's a little bit funny that like some people are really thirsting for blood there at the end. So what should people expect if they're thinking about reading this series? Like how would you kind of like briefly summarize the themes kind of like general plot lines maybe some of your favorite tropes of Haven Ever After without getting into spoilers? Without getting into spoilers. Um, I would say it's just a real like cozy feel-good series with a lot of like sisterhood and found family vibes. Like when I write, I tend to do this even under both pendings, but I I try to make the world itself almost a character. And this, you know, in in this series, the town is literally a character with the houses and businesses have personalities and like so that's probably a lot of what you can expect. It's funny because I never saw Halloween Town until people kept telling me it was like Halloween Town and so I watched it really for the first time like last year and I was like, "Oh my god, there's even a grumpy mayor." Like what on what in the world? Like what? Um but I mean it's very much got those vibes and I'm a huge I'm a fall person. Like give me all the pumpkins and gourds and adorable mushrooms and gnomes and so like if you like the cottage core vibes, the series is pretty much that in spades. But I would say it's also still relatively spicy. Like probably not five chili peppers, but like a solid three or four for most people. Um, and I mean it's just the other thing I would say to expect is that there's really never like any outright miscommunication. There's no third act breakups. Like everybody's an adult and they behave like adults. Everybody isn't like 18 or 21 years old. Like they're all a little bit older or they might even be like ancient. And um, totally. So, it's very much just like the drama tends to be external to the couple. And I think I wrote it that way because I'm not an uber dramatic person in my real life. Like I don't I don't have a lot of drama between myself and Mr. Fury Mack. So like I don't know. I just tend to write characters relationships a little bit more like my real life one. So, I would just say, yeah, like if you're looking into that like, you know, heartbreaking miscommunication trope, it's not it's not for you because there's not a lot of that around here. I think we appreciate that cuz like, yeah, the miscommunication, the like 21-year-old FMC kind of bumbling around. Like, sometimes we can get a little tired of that. And so, this is very refreshing. And I do love that it's super spicy as well because for our I just have to say this for our dark romance girlies. Is this dark? No. But I feel like it still fulfills like the spiciness that we like. You know what I mean? It's a good balance. Totally. Mhm. Yeah, I agree. And I mean I, you know, I I love to put the spice in the books and the great thing about monster romance is there's so many different ways like tales. I mean, horns, you know, all these like extra bits and bobs. Like you I mean, it's like the sky is your limit. And really, like you don't have to do it the way other people who write romance, monster romance do. Like just make it all up. It's the best. I love it. That's what's so refreshing because like we've read a lot of monster romance now and we love how dynamic your series is and immersive. Like I literally feel like I'm there in town with them, which like I'm obsessed with that and the different relationships involved. But you're right, I never really thought about it. They don't have like that petty he said, she said drama. And I think that's part of why we love it so much also because we're not really like into that generally like with academia and stuff. So there's just so many things that we love about this series. And just Thank you. Thank you. So good. Happy to keep the good vibes coming. Yeah, exactly. So, was there anything in particular that kind of inspired the idea for the Haven Ever After series for you? You know, it's funny because um I was right when I first started publishing under my other pen name, Anna Fury, which is mostly a megaverse and paranormal, like darker romanty, and I love that. Like, there's there's it's a lot of fun to me to write like darker characters. Um, but there was a side of me that was like enjoying reading Ruby Dixon and, you know, some of the more like light-hearted romance where everything isn't like, you know, so stressful all the time. And, um, a fun fact, Ice Planet of Barbarians was actually the first romance books I read. And I never read romance books till like 6 years ago. Like I didn't grow up reading them or anything like that. So, so anyways, IPB was like my introduction into romance. And so I think there was part of me that was just kind of like yearning to get back to that more light-hearted vibe and I was like, I can't really do this under my main pen name. Um, it needs to just be something new, you know, like something alternative and I'll like I'll see how it goes. And Practical Magic is like one of my favorite movies. I'm also a huge sci-fi like Firefly, um, Starship Troopers, like Give Me All, which is again like not very cozy at all, but like I love the like wild, crazy, immersive worlds. And so I wanted to do something that was like a little more witchy, a little more cottagecore, and I didn't really feel like that fit with my main pen name. So I just kind of started writing it for fun. And it's interesting cuz I had um a couple girls who were kind of helping me PA at the time, and I had both of them read it and neither one of them really liked it. And I was like, "Ooh, I, you know, I really trust y'all's opinion." Um, and I think this is great. But they were like,"Okay, you know, you know, maybe it has promise." But they weren't really into it. But I was like, "You know what? I just feel good about it. Mhm. Like I want the practical magic vibes. I want the mummy vibes. Like I want all of those. I want to write that, you know, and I just had like a good feeling in my jellies, as Pokémon say. And so I um I just kept going and I got all the way to the end. And I had an editor friend and I was like, "Okay, a couple of my friends who read this didn't like it, but I feel good about it. Will you read it? Cuz this is what I'm going for. I want you to feel like you're impractical magic or Casper the Ghost or Gilmore Girls, but with like extra pen, you know. And so, and my editor was like,"Don't listen to anybody who says that. This is stellar. Like, it's so fun. The whole town, like, you've got to keep going. You've got to write more. Like, you've just got to pivot and write this." And so, anyway, that's kind of like what inspired me and how I kept going. Which is sort of funny cuz even now my girlfriend's like, "Yeah, it's just not my it's just not my vibe." And I'm like, "Really? What's wrong with you?" I don't What do you mean it's not your vibe? But I mean, you know, like no no shame. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There are different books for everybody on the planet. Totally. But but yeah, I just I usually I usually have a good feeling about things like my I really go by my gut with what I write and I just I just felt like it was going to be like people would resonate to the like the no drama just like good people falling in love in fun ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So actually coming off of that, that's really interesting. So, I did want to, you know, briefly touch on the darker Omega verse romances that you do write under your other pen name, Anna Fury. So, you know, maybe if someone does pick up one of these Haven Ever Afters and, you know, like what you were just talking about, if people are like, you know, it's cute, but it's not for me. Briefly tell us about those other series that you have and how they're different from Haven Heaven Haven Ever After and who you might recommend them for. Yeah. So, it's interesting because actually my very favorite series I've written out of all of my books is called the Temple Maze series. It's very dark. Like dark dark noncon hidden maze full of alpha males and the the heron gets like thrown into be their prey and hunting her is televised. How have I read? Like it's really dark. It's really really dark. It's really really dark. I don't know how tense I can like repeat that. It's it's super it's super dark. Um, but the world is like the world building I think is really good in that book. But, um, it's a complete trilogy and it's uh it's it's yeah, like people usually describe it as like Hunger Games meets, you know, Maze Runner. It's the other book I'm thinking. Oh, interesting. Um, so that's really fun. That's a really really fun series. Um, interestingly, it's like my least well performing series. I feel like I wrote really dark dystopian alpha romance at a time that was just it was just like not the right time. One of these days somebody is going to like mention it somewhere and it'll take off. But I'm just manifesting that. Um probably my most popular series under that pen name is Alpha Compound, which is probably not a shock that I wrote this during COVID because the whole premise is this worldwide virus escapes a lab and it turns men into alphas and they're not safe. So the government hunts them and they have to hide. And so that compound is this like hidden compound where this billionaire has this like collecting alphas because they're actually not what they seem and they're not all feral, violent, horrible people. So book one is this um kind of shy reporter who watched her brother transition into an alpha gets pulled in to like tell the truth of what they really are. And then of course, you know, she falls in love with one of the guys and that starts this whole it's like a five five book series. So it's just um that one's not super dark. It's just a little bit dark, but there's like an evil governmental agency. It's very dystopian. You know, the alphas are all on like on the run. Um, so yeah, it's uh it's a lot of fun. It's very it's very similar in the like found familyhood vibes. It's just that the world is dark. The world around them is much darker. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, okay, pausing this interview so I can go start reading those. Yeah. It's fun. It's really fun. Yeah, they're really fun. And they're all on audio book, so there's that, too. Yeah, I'm excited. Everybody has their pen and papers out. Add to TBR. Let's go. Yeah, it's fun. Um, it's a good time. You'll be But you'll be like, "Did the same brain really do both of these things?" Cuz it's a little scary. You mentioned a little bit about starting your monster romance/paranormal romance reading journey. Uh, after that, were you kind of hooked after Ice Planet Barbarians? Yeah, you know, it's funny because I think growing up, I think I very much had a perspective on what I thought romance books were, which is like, you know, the historical westerns you see at the Walgreens checkout. Like that was my only experience at all in my whole entire life. And then in co, this is still so funny to me, I read Acatar and really enjoyed it and I read it on I read it on Kindle and I had KU and KU was like, if you liked that, you should try Ice Planet Barbarians. And like looking back now, I'm like like of all the things she could have recommended after that, it was IP IP. Like that is interesting. It happens in space. What are we talking about? Right? Like um but I did, you know, like it's like I read book one and I was like, did she really just wake up and he's like mid and that's like they haven't even said hello yet? And so but I like I I muddled through and then I got to book two with Liz and I was like I'm in love with this world. this world is crazy and I love sci-fi anyway. So that's just really I mean it just it just hooked me from there and I pretty much never looked back and I felt like I have finally found the corner of the world with my people. That was like me always reading these books like this romanty is great but I really wish like there was more of the romantic element to it or that we got to see what happened in that relationship and you know not having those like threads pulled together in the end was just always like kind of a disappointment to me. So then when I discovered romance that wasn't like the Walgreens westerns which like again those all have their place it just that wasn't my particular style so it didn't really appeal to me um I just really never looked back and I don't even now like occasionally I will read either like a sci-fi book cuz my husband loves sci-fi or I'll read books about viruses and illnesses because I find that really fascinating. Totally. I don't know. Probably because it's kind of it's kind of sci-fi. Um, but it's like it's mostly romance all the time because it's the best. I love it so much. Yeah. So, how long on average would you say it took you to write a Haven Ever After book? And were some harder than others to write? And then if you have anything to say about the indie publishing experience that you'd like to kind of interject in there, too. God. Yeah. Um, I it doesn't take me that long to write a book. I can write anywhere from five to 15,000 words a day. Um, as long as I have a super solid outline, which for me, I'm a plotter, so I, you know, I got the whole plot and everything done ahead of time. I do spend at least a couple of weeks, if not a month, doing just world building before I start a series. So, I'll figure out like what are, you know, how how does the magic work, if there's magic, what do the people look like, act like, what are the customs? What are the illness? Like, I have a list of about 20 things that I have to figure out about my world before I ever start writing. and that helps me to kind of get immersed into the world. Um, so I can write a book really quickly if I could just sit down and write that book. Like usually five, six weeks is about average and then it's got to go through like a beta reading and editing process. But my actual writing takes about 5 to 6 weeks. Um, maybe seven on the outside. The hardest of the Haven books for me to write was Walting with Witches, The Keeper Story, which is book four. I think just because everybody hated him so much in book one. But all along I knew that he was going to have all this like sort of spoilery. But he has a backstory that ultimately he is redeemed in his book even though you think it's not going to be possible for that to happen. Like I don't know how many times I had people message me who were like I really never thought you were going to be able to make me like him. And like I sobbed probably for the whole entire second half of writing that book. And I'm not like a big crier but that one really got to me. Um, and so that one was harder to write because I feel like I just edited and I was like nitpicking constantly and going back and forth and adding these things just to really make sure that like when readers got to that point, they would be like, "Wow, I can really see why he made the decisions he did and it makes s like it makes sense now." Um, so that was probably the hardest one to write. Um, the one that took me the longest to write was book five, werewolves. And I think that's just because um the heroine is is um from a Mexico based haven. And so I had to work with a pretty big sensitivity team to make sure that I told that character, you know, I told that character accurately. I'm not Mexican, so I don't understand the perspective of being a Latine. And so, um, it was it just was a lot of extra process to go through that, which is something I feel like to your your question about the indie publishing journey. If you're going to write the perspective of a character that you don't personally have, and sometimes even if you do, I think it's good to get other input. Absolutely. Like I didn't when I wrote Ren in book two as a plus-sized character, I had three or four plus-sized beta readers who went through the entire manuscript to give me perspective and feedback like, is this accurate? Does this does this resonate? Does this feel right? Um, and so that process I feel like is really is really an important part of the writing process. I think it's great to write diverse characters, but only if you're going to do it with respect. Um, so that has been a really important part of the journey for me, too. And I love writing diverse characters. I don't want to write a bunch of short ways down. I want to write a lot of cool characters, but you just have to like for me, I feel like it's really important to take the time to get outside input on your characters before you just sling that book out into the world. Yeah, I definitely I'm glad that you brought that up because that was definitely something that I really appreciated um about I'm like now I forget all of the numbers, but um wrestling with werewolves and Lola. Yeah, that was something that I really appreciated it. I am half Mexican. My mom's from Mexico and so reading that like, you know, I don't want to say like I can relate to everything that she, you know, is doing or anything like that, but it was one of those things where I could definitely notice it. Like when I was reading I was like, "Oh, the research was done." Like this feels really good to read and it made me just extra. It made me love this series even more because I feel like you did take the time to do that, right? And so, thank you. We really appreciate it. I'm so glad that you could tell because I feel like when I was writing it, I'm like, man, unless you are Mexican or maybe maybe if you're if you are from somewhere outside of Mexico but still Latin, you might understand the research that went into it. But I I have had a lot of Mexican readers reach out to me about it. So, I'm like, this is for you guys. Thank you. I hope you love it. And I um it was just really fun to do the research, too. Yeah. So, yeah. make the world like feel bigger, you know? Yes. Yeah. Because it wouldn't just be it would be so weird for it to just be like a bunch of white people in Massachusetts, right? Like you would obviously have a more diverse cast of characters just like the real world. So, I think that's part of that's part of why I wanted to make sure that the characters in the series reflect that, too. Yeah. and the representation, you know, across the board with that and also in different bodies and in different relationships. Like there's different relationship styles represented throughout this series, too. And I think that's a beautiful thing cuz it's also done in such a like casual way, you know, like lighthearted. Yeah. Yeah. Just like this is what it is. There we go. You know what I mean? So, it's done very beautifully. I I think part of that stems too from I took a time off between um vampires and book six and I got um last summer diagnosed with diabetes and so I was like surprise dying in the hospital like because I didn't know I had diabetes so I was just obviously not treating it and so then I was like admitted to the emergency room cuz my doctor's like oh my god you're like dying in my waiting room right now. Oh man. And so I didn't know that that was happening obviously. And so when I got admitted and then it turned out I had diabetes. And then after coming out of that like it's managed now and I'm doing great. Um but it you know it occurred to me. I'm like oh my god I'm now a person who could like sensitivity read cuz I don't read that many diabetic characters in books. And so it just if I weren't already focused on representation in books I think that would have really just solidified for me like a couple of things. The first being that the representation of all different types is important to me and the second that no two perspectives are equal even among a certain type of representation. Like me as a diabetic, my experience could be wildly different from somebody else as a diabetic. So I think it it just um made me glad that I've always worked with sensitivity readers and just, you know, even more dedicated towards more types of representation in the future of different chronic illnesses. It's like now I fit, you know, I fit in that category and it can be rough like a like I actually had somebody the other day say you don't you don't really like look sick though. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, that's great." You know, I've heard people talk about somebody saying that to them and it's like, "Well, I'm glad I don't look sick because that means I'm managing it well, but every time I dose myself with insulin, I could kill myself." So, like every day is like a fight to be alive. And just cuz I don't look sick doesn't mean that like you aren't dealing with something. And all of us could say that about something, right? Mhm. So, anyways, that's my little side tangent into chronic illness representation or romance. Yeah, for sure. It's important. It's important just for people to be able to see themselves in popular media in general. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And even other and even if that isn't a like what something the reader is dealing with, seeing the representation and empathy for other characters as well, you know, it translates into the real world. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Mhm. Yeah, speaking of empathy, I just have to like interject really quick. Yeah, I definitely cried when we found out about the keeper's past. I know. I know. It was so good. It was so heart-wrenching. Yeah. And I'm not a crier either, but I was like, I can't. Yeah. And if you guys like cuz you're reading cuz we're like we're like bumping along reading this series, having a jolly good time, and Liz got to that one before me and she's like, you just wait. But it was like it's a good we love like a good emotional like moment. And there's I'm not gonna spoil anything, but there is this moment in that book that's just so beautiful and difficult to like, you know. Um, so yeah, we love that. We're feeling all the feelings over here and it's a great time. Read it, guys. Right. And I love a good redemption arc. I love a good redemption arc and it was done perfectly in my opinion. Yeah. Great. And then no spoilers, but there's always been. Don't forget Ben. Have you always considered yourself a writer? Is it something that you grew up doing? Yes. Um, I have always been a writer and actually when I was a little kid, I always wanted to be a writer. I wanted to publish books. I didn't know about romance yet, but I was like, I'm going to write, you know, fantasy books and la. And my dad, who was like a very pragmatic person. It's like, honey, I love that. And you could totally do that on the side, but you probably shouldn't like, you know, you should have like that should be like your backup plan. that should be like your side hustle, but like you need to pick a job where you can make some money because writers don't make any money. And this was like before the time of self-publishing. So, I mean, he, you know, he was just trying to be cautious and, you know, be like like follow your dreams, but also make sure you can pay your bills, which like isn't necessarily a bad, you know, I get where he was coming from. Um, so I actually went into sales. I was always in sales, tech sales, and I I just quit my job in August of this year finally to write full-time. and I've been writing since 2021. So, it's been my side hustle for a long time. But I did, it's funny because I when I quit, my husband took my son and and me to Top Golf and we went and played golf like Spongebob Golf at Top Golf and he was like, "Honey, this is like the culmination of your whole entire life of dreams. Like, you are now an office full time." It's amazing. Um, so anyway, yeah, we went and golf. Oh, congratulations. So huge. That's amazing. It's funny because my son immediately was like to the waiter at Topgolf like the day that I was like my the day that I gave notice at my job. He's like uh they said, "Oh, you're celebrating anything?" He's like,"Yeah, um my mom quit her job to write books." And the person's like, "Oh my god, that's so cool." You like tell what do you write? You know, so like a guy, like a like a 18-year-old guy. My my son is like doesn't miss a beat. He goes,"Oh, um, she writes books with guys on the front with no shirts, but they have wings." And they're like really, really happy. I love it. Oh my god. And the guy was like, "Okay, I'll be back with your drinks." I was like, "Yeah, bring me." Oh my god. But he loves my son loves to tell everybody. He'll be like, "We'll be in the car pickup line. Did you know my mom writes romance books?" I'm like, "Thanks, Cole." So cute. One day you're not going to think it's cool that I write these books. are going to be like mortified, but that day has not come. So far, he's happy to like just tell everybody in line at the grocery store, "My mom writes books." A we love a supportive prince out there. So cute. I know. He's the best. It's It's adorable. But yeah, so cute. Are there any other unpublished works that you want to mention at all? Um, let's see. So, if you've gotten all the way through The Haven Ever After and you're like, "Oh my god, what do I do next?" I actually have a book, a a prequel nolla that went live about 10 minutes ago on Amazon called All My Hex's and it is a cowboy monster romance set in the Haven world. And it's um it is in the Haven that we went to in book eight. Ooh. Okay. So, we are going to be doing a spin-off series of cowboy monster romances. And this is a prequel to kind of just like wet your whistle a little bit about the world. And then book one, Live, Love, Lasso, comes out this winter. I'm so excited. I'm literally so excited. Listen, I'm not a cowboy romance girly, but you're going to change me, okay? I'm predicting the future, and it is good. And yeehaw, baby. I'm so excited. Yeah, it's it's going to be a lot of fun. And I would say you don't have to like be super obsessed with [ __ ] Broncos or like Wrangler jeans or anything to appreciate this. It's just like it's funny because the meat cute from book one is actually a thing that happened to me in real life. Like a meat cute that happened to me in real life. It's like after I was married, it just this crazy like meat cute. And when it happened, I was like, "This has got to go in a book because this was so wild. I don't even like I don't even know what to do." My husband was like, "Just keep meeting people and using this to make money with your books." Like, I'm I approve. Cool. Um, so anyway, it's it's Yeah, it's a little bit wild and a lot of fun and I think it'll be I think it'll be a good time. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we're so excited. You are pumping them out. It is so impressive, dude. I feel like every time we're like, "Okay, we're catching up. We're Okay, she just released three more. Let's go. Liz, we're sending each other like reels. Okay, we got to get this one on the dock. Let's go." I feel like it's been a million years since I've published a book. Even though Minotaur just came, the last book just came out like what, a month and a half ago, but this I'm taking a little break between that and this next one. Although I guess I publish a but um but just like a short story. It's like, you know, a prequel short story. But um the next one won't come out till this winter because I'm hoping to get a couple just like to write ahead to write a few books so that I can do like a, you know, more time for marketing and all those things that you're supposed to do as an indie. So, but it's like having four months off between releases feels so weird to me. Like what am I doing with myself? Yeah. It's like they're living out there. I I need to write about them. They're out there, you know? They're living their lives. Yeah. They're like a part of you, I'm sure. Does the characters as readers, they're like a part of us and I'm like wondering what they're up to. You're the writer. Like, does it feel like this connection to these characters you're writing? Yeah, absolutely. And when I finished, I cried writing the last book. There's like a scene at the end of the last book where we see all of the characters from the other books, like a parade through town. And so you see everybody like one final time. And every time I was like going through rereading and editing and like listening to the audio book and all of that stuff, I was just like I cried every time. I'm like I feel like I live in ever. Like I I am an ever resident watching all these people fall in love and telling their stories and like now we have to go somewhere else when he's like going home after vacation. I don't want Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So, I know I know that you shouted out Ruby Dixon and obviously Ice Planet Barbarians, but do you have any other favorite authors or books that you want to shout out while you're here, while you've got the stage? Yeah. It's funny because I, you know, we talked ahead of time about like what we were going to discuss and I was like,"Oh, I'm just reading Ruby Dixon's new one by the horns." It's like basically if she writes it, I will read it. Um, but but Lola Rock is another one of my favorite authors. She um wrote an Omegaverse called Pack Darling, which is oh my god, it's so good. If you haven't never heard of it and you want to get into a megaverse, it's amazing. So it's like the gal and then the pack is like four or five guys and um so that's like a lot of boyfriends. Anyway, her newest book is called Red Ruin and it's more like a darker dystopian kind of a romance and the guys are not together at all. So, it's like her and the guys, but they're pretty much like mortal enemies. And her writing is just so immersive and beautiful, and her character development is so amazing. And her pros is really good. And I feel like my writing is very much how I speak. So, I always really admire people who just who write in like a really flowery, beautiful way cuz it's just not my style. Um, so anyway, I love her and I'm reading her new book. And then I also just got off to show you guys this one because it's so pretty. Hang on, let me move my let me move my camera. My friend Amy Penza, who is sometimes my co-author, wrote this book, Fitten and Down, which is a dark vampire romanty. So, this is the whole trilogy and this is the Moonlight Book Box like special edition. Gorgeous. So pretty. It's so pretty. Oh my goodness. And actually, this gal who did this art is the gal that did all the cover art so much. Yeah. Oh my god, it's so pretty. So anyway, those are like what I'm reading right now and loving. Um, yeah, love that. Beautiful. Okay, so these are these are going to be some hard questions and we're so curious because you have so many good characters throughout your series and the MMC's, oh my goodness, each are just so lovely and wonderful in their own ways, but if you had to pick a favorite MMC, who would it be in the Haven Ever Aster series? That's gone. That's hard. Yeah, that's that's really hard because they all came out of my brain. So, I'm like obviously all of them. I would put them in like a herum together. Um, if I had to only pick one, it would probably be Ball um from book seven. So, he's the keeper's dad. And if you haven't gotten to book seven, basically he's just like this ancient crazy charming super confident shadow daddy. Like, he's almost his power is almost limitless. and all he wants to do is give Amatea the world that she was never able to see. Like the things he does for her are so they're things that free her, but it's so romantic to me because he doesn't expect anything from her in return. He just wants to give her these things just because he wants to give them. Um and I just he's really he's really sexy. It's like you're singing our song. We love all those things. I know. He's good. He's good. Yeah, he's really Yeah, he's he's I mean Yeah. If you haven't gotten to that one yet, like slight spoiler, but like he built her a lake cuz she's a mermaid and in his like in his backyard and like it's just Yeah, he's just really it's good. He's like top tier. I would keep him. If I could only keep one, I would keep him. All right. How about FMC? Who's your favorite girly pop? Um, that would be Lola from book five. Um, I just really love her character. I loved how torn she was between supporting her people and being a good daughter and being a good princess, but also not denying what she had with Richard. And I love him, too. Like, he's probably would be my like second pick for who I would keep because he's just like just I love the daddy vibes. The respectful daddy vibes. Like the disrespectful respectful daddy vibes is always like just gives to me. Um but um yeah, I just they're actually my favorite power couple of the series. I just think that they're awesome together and I feel like that book of the series is kind of like underrated. Like sometimes people will skip that one and I think it's just like could you go to another heaven for part of the time and I'm like yeah but the whole thing is about their role in ever and you know how do they bridge two worlds in a way that's like to me that's like a relatable challenge of real life relationships sometimes is like sometimes she'll be like Jay and I had this my husband when we met like I got offered a job that I thought I was going to have to take and I was have to move to Texas. it was like Thursday afternoon. They want to be there like Monday. So that whole like how do we bridge these two worlds thing is very personal to me cuz we had to like make those decisions as a real life couple. And so anyway, I just love Lola cuz she's so strong and she doesn't want to lose the music and her, you know, she doesn't want to lose her dreams, but she doesn't want to lose her people either. And I don't know, I just identified with her a lot. And I loved Santa Ali, the town that she's from. Yeah, I can't imagine skipping that book. Like literally same like I love Lola so much. Like the twist at the end was amazing. Like no spoilers, but it was so good. And like Rich like mind blow like literally Richard is my new like top book husband. Like he's just so great. And so I'm like how could you skip him? How could you skip him? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, everybody, you know, people have different vibes. Like, the other book that I would say people sometimes skip that always surprise me is book three, which is Shepherd's Brother Aloe and Miriam the Pixie. And I think it's just because people wanted to figure out why the keeper was such an a-hole, so they like to jump from two to four. But I'm like, "Oh my god, you're missing out on the Halloween chase scene. Like, are you kidding?" I mean, in like literally Halloween Town. Like, oh, that was so cute. So, Halloween, I was eating that up. Like, go read book three right now. Yeah. So cute. So, so coming off of that, are there any characters that you personally relate to? Any characters? I, you know, I think I have a I'm sure all authors do this to a degree, but I definitely put bits of myself and my like real life friends into a lot of the characters. And actually, um, when I was writing book two with Ren and Oaken, I pretty much modeled Oaken after my husband. Um, so there's like I I relate very much to him just because he's like he's kind of like like that quietly dominant like lowkey personality. Very much in my corner. Like if I say let's go jump off the Empire State Building tomorrow. He'd be like, "Okay, what are we doing, girl? Let's go. Let's go get a like a parachute." Yeah. Um, so anyway, I really, yeah, I mean, I think I relate to all of the triplets just because they they each feel like me in some ways. I tend to write a lot of really strong personality women, probably because I am also a strong personality person. Um, so I tend to write a lot I don't write a lot of like shy heroins. I've written some quiet ones, but I don't really write a lot of shy ones. And I think part of that is just because I don't know how it feels like to be shy. I would have to have like shy sensitivity readers because I don't understand I couldn't I don't know how to write a shy person. Um so yeah I think I identify with most of them in that sense that like nobody in like the whole entire town is like not shy. Yeah. Mhm. So is there any pieces of media outside of books in particular that inspired you to write this series? You know, it's it's funny because I probably like everybody else in the world, I'm now currently obsessed with K-pop Demon Hunters. Yes. Liz doesn't get it. Obviously, that isn't like what what like soundtrack alone is fire. Oh, fire. Um, so while while that didn't necessarily uh I was listening to it a lot like at the end of the series and it really made me want to like go back and add a whole bunch of more books just with some of those vibes because I think those characters are so expertly put together and I just love like kind of the family drama and family expectations that they dealt with. Um, apart from that, I actually try not to to read a lot in my genre just because I don't want to feel I don't want to get an idea and be like, did I just read that somewhere or you know what I mean? So, I don't read actually don't read that much monster romance when I'm writing it. I'll go read like a meverse or something else for sure. Um, but then I have like I've mentioned some movies a little bit earlier that I love, but I am a rewatcher of movies. I watch a lot of zombie movies. I'm a huge Resident Evil fan and actually I have tended to be pretty good at forecasting what I think is going to be trends a trend in like the romance world. Um I I predicted that we were going to get back in dystopian and now Ally Hazelwood has got a dystopian a meverse coming out. I'm like oh my god are are you kidding? Am I like am I a fortune teller? I don't know. I should be able to like wrangle that into my own fortunes a little better than I have. But um but I have predicted that we were going to get some zombie romance in the coming year to 18 months. And I'm actually starting to see it now. So anyways, all of that to say that I think that could actually be really fun. My friend Amy's like, "Are you kidding me? There's nothing sexy about zombies." I'm like, "But there could be though." Okay, Warm Bodies. You've seen Warm Bodies, right? My daughters love Zombie the like musical on Disney. Oh, they love it. Eat it up. They love Zed. They make my husband sing his part. It's so funny. Yeah, I was going to say like literally we talk about him all the time. Like Ghoul, Walton Gogggins from Fallout is like I'm obsessed. I don't know anybody that would not smash that immediately. Listen, it's theole for me. It's the hole in the face for me that I'm out. But I get it. I get it. That hole in the face would not even deter me for two seconds. I love that. I would like to keep all my fingers though. I need them to tighten. So yeah, I mean I think a lot of those a lot of those movies and shows that I I watch Heart of Dixie a lot which you'll be able to tell when when this cowboy romance comes out because a lot of the themes like I named one of the characters Lemon. Oh the main character's name is Lemon. Um so yeah, I tend to rewatch a lot of the same shows over and over again and if I like the vibes of something I'm like oh man how could I use like those vibes and Yeah. Yeah. like comfort watch and see like that's kind of what I know that this series will be be for me once I'm fully completed with reading it because it's like it's a comfort where I I want to personally read from start to finish. You can I think go and grab you know any and read it if you're not vibing with a certain dynamic I think cuz you still have a story woven throughout the entire thing. Um and then you're getting these you know couple focuses throughout. Um, but I can foresee me going and grabbing, you know, one of my favorites off the shelf later once I'm completed as a comfort read, just as we love comfort movies, comfort shows. So, I love that what you've done with that, cuz we totally get that vibe, too. Same. Yeah, I can see that. So, were there any themes that you put into any of these books that are extra meaningful to you? I mean, I think I don't have sisters in real life. I have a crazy younger brother who likes to call me with like bookish suggestions and they're always I'm like, "Oh my god, Joe, just so awkward. It's just like he called me the other day and he's like, "Oh my god, I think I've I found my new calling. I'm just going to give you ideas for romance books and you can write them." And so he tells me he's like like as if this isn't like awkward enough cuz I'm the older sister. He's like four years younger, which might as well be like a hundred years when like the older person is the girl in the relation in the, you know, the sibling ship or whatever. Anyways, he calls me. He's like, "You should do a monster romance where the guy is a mermaid." And he swims over the city of women. And he just like inseminates everybody as well. And I was like, you're missing the point of a romance novel. Isn't that what men already do in real life? Like we Nobody wants to read this. Are you kidding me? Um, yeah. He'll write me with like really bad punny titles for things, you know, and I'm just like, okay, I'm I have yet to use any of his ideas, but we're going on a Christmas trip together, and I'm sure he's going to be like a list of things. Um, so so yeah. Yeah. So, I would say like having a crazy sibling is probably a theme that ends up in a lot of my books because my my sibling is so crazy. Um, and I think because I don't have any sisters, like the concept of sisterhood is really like really something I tend to always put. And I realized the other day after somebody said this to me, they were like, "You write a lot of awful parents?" Like, "Were your parents awful in real life?" And I don't know why I do that. I But I I do. I think I've written a lot of like stress. My parents were great, but I like I think I've written a lot of stressful like parent relationships, but I think I just can like relate to the challenges and the and the dynamic between different generations of people. And so it just sort of manifests itself into these like crazy parents in some of the books sometimes. Um, but I will also say that somebody picked this up and nobody has ever picked this up until it was mentioned on on another podcast a couple years ago that I love Casper the Ghost. And there's all there's some there's some uh version of the can I keep you comment or like vibe in every one of the books and that's purposeful. Um and it might not be like those exact words, but it's kind of something along those lines. That's very much a theme in like book one is like Shepherd doesn't know if he'll get to keep this love that he's found, right? Like she's just there for the weekend. She's going to go back home to the human world. And so anyway, that's like a like very much a theme that um that exists in all of the books because I love that movie so much. And that like the two little hands crossing, you know, the can I kiss you? Oh my god. So cute. So classic. So cute. You mentioned a couple people in real life, but there's anything else you want to talk about of how people in real life react to when they find out you are writing dark romance, monster romance, something that may be a little different than what they're used to. Um, you know, I think that it's interesting because the people around me, I think for the most part, all my girlfriends were like, "Well, yeah, this tracks." Like, that's what I started writing romance. I'm like, "You've never even seen me like read a romance book. What do you mean this tracks?" But I guess it seems like my personality write romance. So, all of my girlfriends have been really, really supportive. It's funny though because like my two closest girlfriends both were like we will buy the books but we can't read the books because we just read them in your voice and it's like we can't we just can't do it. Like we can't do it. So they actually both um switch to audio books. So they listen to the audio books but they can't read the physical books which is hilarious. Yeah. But it's like just having another having another person's voice the words is like like enough for them. And then my husband beta reads for me actually. He's like my alpha reader. He reads every book and he gives me notes and he tells me like when things are like how a dude wouldn't really respond. So I'm like that's kind of the point cuz this isn't like a real like how a real dude responds. Yeah, that's kind of the point is that this is like fantasy. Yeah. Like how how a real dude would respond. Yeah. Like if I like this like sometimes I'll be like well a guy guys don't think like that and I'm like well in this world they I'm not I'm not cutting it. I'm leaving it for sure. Um, so yeah, so there's there's that too. I get the occasional, especially when Cole does his explanation of what it is I do for a living, you know, with the like naked men who are really happy. Um, sometimes I'm kind of like, "Oh, I really wish I could have pitched that a different way. I need to give him some other words to explain what it is I do." But I mean, you know, for the most part, I don't know if it's like my personality or just the vibes that I give off, but people for the most part don't say anything negative to me about romance, which is good because I would probably go on an entire tie raid about the beauty of romance and what it enables for women and in women's lives. Like I had a lady write me the other day and this to me explains like what is so powerful about romance novels. She wrote me and she had been a first responder and she was involved in an accident that like sidelined her for a couple of years and it gave her such deep anxiety that she could not leave her house. So she ended up going on disability. She had to get a service dog to even like feel okay going out of her house again. And she binged romance books and she loved the Haven Ever After series because of its like you know because of the vibes. She messaged me cuz she was like I just wanted you to know that um this series helped me kind of get out of that funk. like I got the dog finally after everybody suggested I get the dog and I named her for Haven because I just wanted to remember and I I just got chills and I've gotten email like multiple emails like that from people about you know how something in a book like changed their life and it's and I think everybody who's written a romance novel could probably say that somebody's messaged them and said something like that romance is powerful and whenever people are like oh it's porn or oh it's just smud or oh it's just for women I'm like yeah it's just for women and it's it's beautiful it's lovely and It's it feels good and it's not just porn because if it was just that then the emotional component and the character arc wouldn't be so important and it is so important. That's why we care about the characters. That's why we even care what happens to the characters. Um so anyways, that's my little tirade about that. But um yeah, I mean I just I'm glad that people don't say anything to me about um romance books in public because I would just go on a rant for about 35 years. Yeah. Yeah. Good. It's relatable for sure. I feel like we've gone on many rants. Yeah. As you should. As you should. Yeah. Uh so is there any anything in particular that you're hoping people get out of Ever After books when they read it? Um I think the one thing I always hope for people because I'm lucky enough to have this in real life is like when you have a romantic partner, you can expect the moon from that person. You don't have to settle for like, oh, we're like 75% compatible. Like, you could be 98% or 99% compatible with somebody. Like, that exists in real life for real people. And you don't have to put up with somebody who belittles you or looks down on you or isn't in your corner. And I can remember my mom when I was when I was like a teenager and kind of starting to date. She's like, "Listen, when you were a baby, your dad would be like at the hospital working 24 hours straight, and he would come home and the first thing he would do is take you from me and tell me to just go take 5 minutes to myself cuz he knew that I had been with you and you were like a hard baby, right? Even though he had just come off this hospital thing." And she's like,"When you grow up and you start dating, if you don't have a person you know will be in your corner like that, do not marry that person." And that story really, really stuck in my head because I was like, "I agree." And so it's funny cuz when I started dating my husband, I was like, I'm never going to get married if it's not like I'll just be single forever if I don't feel like I have, you know, what my parents had. And um and then I met my husband. He's and he's super wonderful. But I hear people will say that sometimes like I had a lady who wrote me the other day and she's like,"I just split up with my boyfriend after reading your book series." Sorry, boyfriend. She's like, "Cuz I just realized that like good people are out there and I don't have to put up with this nonsense." And I was just like, "Oh my god." So anyway, I just that's one thing I would love for people to get is like, you deserve you deserve good behavior from your romantic partner. You deserve respect. You deserve love. You deserve support. You deserve to be uplifted in every way. And granted, you also have a responsibility to do the same thing for that person. Um, but you know, I just, yeah, I mean, I feel like that probably is another theme that comes across in the books is like the guys were always in their partner's corner, right? They are very much like there isn't any like, oh, I disagree with your decisions and whatever. It's like even if you disagreed, you would be there anyway for that person. So, that's kind of what I hope out of the books. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like that's another reason why, you know, sometimes I feel like romance books can be so scrutinized is because they do center women and their needs. And I think, you know, when we hear that, you know, you're setting unrealistic expectations for men thing, it's like, or are are you just writing books that show how we should be treated and that makes you look bad? Yeah. I'm like, listen, would it be an unrealistic expectation for me to expect my husband to sprout shadow wings and chase me around the living room? Yeah. He's probably not going to be capable of doing that. And that's fine, right? Like, I'm not an idiot. Like, I can discern the difference between fantasy and reality. Like, would it be cool if he had wings? Yeah, it would be really cool if he had wings. But like, he's great as he is. I don't think we're expecting too much. I don't think anybody's reading a romance book going, "Well, gosh, my husband doesn't do these five things. It's like time to get a divorce. But I do think it, you know, we're centering women in healthy relationships. And that's a I think that's a good thing. Like if the man isn't living up to a healthy relationship, which is like the bare minimum, then maybe he should be single. Yeah. We talked a little bit about the books that you have coming down the pipeline, but can you give us any insider info about um it's Pine Gulch, right? Which is your next series that's coming out. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So, can you tell us anything about it? Like any little teasers or anything like that? Yes. Um, so, so a couple of things. If you're reading Haven Ever After in book eight, Catherine and Manoran actually go to Pine Gulch for a weekend. So, you get to meet the hero from Live Love Lasso, which is kind of fun. You'll get actually you meet him in that book and you get to see a little bit about Pine Gulch which has a magical train named Mabel and a bunch of um hellhound pitbull crosses called Pit Hills and it's just like a really cute like everybody like there's there's rooster races every year. There's the fall ball. There's like a pumpkin and gourd base. It's really um it's really cute but in more of an understated way than ever. like the town itself, they've never been able to keep a keeper after they had a really great keeper. And so they they don't have like the grumpy sheriff acts like the keeper because nobody like the town kicks everybody else out. The town will literally kick them into the street and then they go back to headquarters. Like the town is really pnicity. And so it's fun because it's just like a little bit more of those wild west vibes, but the town is still super cozy. Everybody's still up in everybody's business. There's literally a newspaper called the Gulch Gossip where these two old bitties write gossip about people in town and publish it and like hand it out. I mean, it is it is really and I think I channeled the ants from Practical Magic when I when I wrote those two characters. I was like, what would what would Jet do? Yeah, love that. Um, so it's a it's a lot of fun. I think it's going to be a little bit spicier than ever, a little bit more kinky than ever. Um because I feel like because I was going so crazy with the names and everything, I went like a little bit lighter on the spice than I usually like to do and then I couldn't like ramp up the spice halfway through the series. So, this one starts like there's a there's um I don't want to give away too much, but the heroine basically comes to town. She doesn't want to come to Pine Gulch. She gets sent there by her father and um and then she ends up being investigated for a crime and so there's like some sexy jail time as as there is a lot of fun. I'm so excited. It's a lot of fun. Do we have a lot of fun? Do we have an official release date for that one? We don't only because it'll be this winter. Um, the only reason we don't have an official release date is Podium is going to produce the audio for me, just like they did the Haven Ever After series. And I would like it to come out at the same time as the book ideally because I think that's easier for people when people always message me like, "The book is out, but I can't get the audio book." Um, so I am going to just hold off until we can get it all released at the same time. And they're thinking it'll probably be winter. Okay. So, um, they've already got the manuscript, so hopefully as soon as as soon as they can get it cast, um, if taking casting suggestions, if there's anybody you guys love for cowboy romance, I can tell. I will say, and I don't know cuz I'm not I'm I'm new to the cowboy romance space. I'm very much looking forward to the series you have coming out. Um, I will say I did listen to uh Lucky River Ranch book one which is called Cash and I don't know who the voice actors are off the top of my head. Sorry. Um, but they were awesome. So, and it was my first cowboy romance and I loved it. So, I don't know. And I think if I remember right, I think it might actually be Podium as well. So, I don't know. Maybe check it out. Okay. Yeah, I should look into it. Yeah, cuz I think it'll be a lot of fun. But it's like, you know, you the western accent is a little different than like a southern accent. You gota gota really nail that without it sounding like cheesy. You're from the Tombstone movie from the 80s, you know, like for sure. So, yeah, I think it'll be fun. So, I'm I'm hoping it'll be like early winter, but I don't know for sure. But my uh my Instagram, I'll announce it on there as soon as we pick the voice actors. And it's going to be good. It's going to be really fun. I have a good feeling in my jelly. Perfect. All right. Well, we are ready to kind of wrap this up with a bit of a smasher pass this time because it's hard. It was hard to like, you know, pick through all your characters. So, we decided to do an F Mary kill. So, we can talk about three characters here. So, you have to marry one, you have to f one, and then of the three you're going to have to kill off one. Liz, who are we making her choose from? So, we picked Shepherd the gargoyle. So, the keeper, Abimett the Vampire, and Richard the werewolf. F Mary kill. Okay. Who was the first one? Uh, Shepherd the Gargoyle. Shepherd. Shepherd. Abe. And who was the last one? My memory. Richard. Richard. Uh, okay. I would probably I would definitely kill Abe. That was too That was almost too easy. I would definitely kill you. I would definitely I just uh effing Mary. I'd probably marry Shepherd because I just he'd just be like a best husband. Yeah. Um and he would always feed me snacks, so I would be like happy. I'd be so happy. But Richard, man, Richard in the nest. Yeah, I could get down with that. That would be that would be my F, I'm pretty sure. Nice. Nice. Love it. Nice. There you go. I mean, really, if I could pick him for two, I would probably marry him also. Kill the other two. Yeah. Just lock it down where if at all possible. Nice. Good. Oh, we love that. Well, is there anything else that you would like to touch on or mention while we have you here today? Um, I can I can give you like a little bit of a teaser of something that isn't announced yet, but will be announced very soon. Um, and I can't say a whole ton of until the ink is signed on the contract, but sometime like next year, there is going to be another series set outside the Haven world in New Orleans. And the whole premise of this series is this gal inherits this crumbling mansion from her grandma, like in the French Quarter, and she has to follow all of these instructions from her like crazy grandmother to get her inheritance. And part of it is like fixing up this old mansion and la doing all these like witchy spells and she doesn't believe in any of that nonsense. And she accidentally opens a portal to another dimension and all these angels and demons come through and they become like political refugees and the government gives them the French Quarter and Whoa. So, it's like this crazy romcom series um that is going to be traditionally published starting next falling and I cannot wait for everybody to read it. It's so cozy and adorable in like a different way. There's like a grumpy angel king and it's it's awesome. Oh, so exciting. We'll definitely looking out for that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll keep you guys posted. I'm like, hopefully I have all of your entire like catalog read by then. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You have some time. You got a year. You got a year. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and joining us. We absolutely loved having you here to discuss all things Haven Ever After and beyond. You guys, also, thank you so much for joining us today. Make sure to go head over to Instagram and follow Hazel Mack, author, and also Anna Fury, author. That way you get all the details on these releases. Like we said, some fun artwork you can peek at and just have a grand old time. Thank you guys so much for listening today. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere you like to list your favorite podcast, including YouTube. We're at Besties in the Books podcast everywhere. And thank you so much again, you guys. Thank you so much. We love you. Thank you. This is so fun. Yay. We will see you guys next Tuesday. Okay. Bye.[Music]